no i understand why and how a negative rise stem would fit certain frames, like i said, i don't know how the bike fits him/her. the way bikes are sized these days and how most bikes are fit, a negative rise stem with deep drops almost puts your body position too low for comfort, in my experience. i think i'm also jaded by severe saddle to bar drops where a negative rise stem, with deep drops ultimately puts your hand positioning on the drops below wheel height and ultimately useless except for show. now either, the rider of these bike have comparatively neanderthal arm length is debatable, but not likely...but more that the bike isn't sized correctly.