Originally Posted by
Vital_Signs
Lets start with some background. Way back when, when I was young and still had my license(I lost it because I have epilepsy and got into a really bad accident, almost killed myself, etc) I played paintball, and if you've never played they build paintball fields out in the middle of nowhere. On the way there was this long, windy road that was well paved and a lot of cyclist would ride it every morning around the time I was on my way to the field. Unfortunately, there was only the road, there was no sidewalk and no bike lane. So, the cyclist would have to ride on the side of the road and would hug the line of the road to let cars go by.
Not quite. the cyclists have a right to take the lane when it's unsafe, and drivers have to wait until it's safe to pass. There is no reason to ride on the sidewalk, even if there are no pedestrians.
I don't know if this is the cause of rage of most drivers, but at the time, I would attribute my annoyance to two reasons:
1. My safety, this was a winding road, in Florida, and you always have to vigilant because the drivers are morons, so when I had to move over to avoid the cyclists, if I was on a curve I wouldn't be able to see oncoming cars.
2. I didn't understand why the cyclist would put themselves in that situation. I'd see these guys and wonder why they would consistently put their lives in my hands. Courtesy is hard wired into my mind(my parents raised me right, despite my attempts to thwart them when I was young and dumb
) and I would slow down or move around, try and keep them safe, but it got annoying because I was thinking "suppose I was a new driver and wasn't paying attention? All it takes is a text message(I hate people who can't get off their phone when driving) to send me flying into a group of bikers with nothing to protect them but a bowl of Styrofoam and form fitting pants."
1. There are many blind curves. It's why the people driving them need to be responsible, and not expect the way to be clear.*
2. If the cyclist is going to point B at the other end of the road, that's the only reason necessary to be there (the only exception being such roads as Interstate highways which often are restricted to bicycle use). We have as much right to the road on bicycles as in a motorized vehicle. If you come around a curve at the speed limit, and encounter a beater of a car limping along, it's only possible to slow down and be patient.
So, my opinion of cyclists were these morons with a death wish or too much faith in their fellow man who put the burden of their safety into my hands and it was annoying. It was like those kids who think there is no better activity to do on a jungle gym than to nose dive off the monkey bars. I wanted to put every single biker in a corner to reflect on their actions because I didn't like being put in charge of the lives of those cyclists.
Here's where your opinion is completely uninformed. I will elaborate later.*
So, now that I am a cyclist myself, I do everything in my power to not put other drivers in that situation and the "share the road" T-shirts kind of annoy me becomes it comes off as pretentious: "I'm on a bike and don't feel like paying attention, so you should watch out for me because I am not going to watch out for you."
Again, you're uninformed.*
So, to summarize, I think some of the rage from drivers comes from the cyclists simply not paying attention and turning their point A to point B commute into a sick game of "dodge the moron." So, to everyone who has read this far, you're as responsible for those near misses as the "*******" is driving the car, so try and give the 2 ton metal object the right-of-way at all times.
And once again, you're grossly uninformed.*
Originally Posted by
Vital_Signs
True, the driver may be in the wrong, however, his mistake will dent his car but you will be injured and possibly killed. It's defensive driving 101, expect the unexpected. It has to constantly be on your mind that there are people out their who either don't know the laws or just don't care and since they just got a very important text message with a picture of their friend making a funny face, watching where they are going isn't on their list of priorities and they run you over. Is it their fault? Entirely and without question it is the drivers fault, however, you face the consequences of his mistake.
So you blame the victim of the bad driver, and not the bad driver. There is one of your stripes of misinformation.**
Take a similar scenario involving just cars, say a drunk driver is swerving down the road in his giant pickup and t-bones another driver killing him. Who's fault is it? Obviously the drunk, the other driver couldn't possibly have expected it, however, the guy is still dead.
I think it's foolish for people to assume that just because there is a stop sign that the drunk is going to stop at it or to ride your bike as if the law is going to protect you from the 2 tons of metal driven by a ******.
So when you've been at stop signs, were you the person who waits until things are clear in every other direction before moving? Or did you sit there until everyone else was honking horns and waving you through? If you're the first there, and see someone else approaching, did you wait to see if the other driver would stop? From how far away? I'm sure you've ticked off a lot of other people by waiting forever to move when you had the right of way. But understand your victim blaming again.**
That is why I think those bikers are morons, because they put their lives in the hands of the irresponsible ******* in control of these vehicles.
That's sort of the idea about accepting the responsibility of driving in the first place and being on the road at all.*
When I mount a bike I don't trust any motorist, and if I have to give up the right-of-way so those morons can go barreling down the road that is something I have to live with so I can make it home safely. When I get on a bike I accept that I may be stuck at the crossing for a few more minutes to wait for the drivers who feel the rules don't apply to them because they have a TV program that they simply can't miss or if I have to take the long way to avoid roads that don't give me the safety buffer I need I do that, if the driver wants to kill himself that is his prerogative, however he isn't taking me down with him. In the end, it doesn't matter what the law states, it doesn't matter who's fault it is, you are still dead because you put too much trust in your fellow man.
Most of us don't trust any other driver on the road, be it motorist or cyclist. But it's no about living in the fear that you prescribe. Again you dive into victim blaming** in stead of being any sort of realistic.
And I think the opinions that make people not like cyclists is because of their flippant attitude about the pecking order of reality.
And so you show yourself no more than uninformed, and trying to educate those who are already knowledgeable on the matter. You're trying to use fear tactics and victim blaming.
Originally Posted by
Vital_Signs
But this is mostly about road rage(though I understand we have gotten slightly off topic, which is partially my fault).
You haven't gotten off your original topic, but you have indeed stuck not to road rage, but to being a fearful cyclist who thinks it's better to ride on the sidewalk than to demand the presence on the road allowed to ALL vehicles safely. Ultimately you say it's the victim's fault for being hit by an irresponsible person.**
I imagine a lot of you either own a car now or have owned a car, to those, what was your reaction when you saw a motorcyclist or even another car weaving through traffic, cutting people off with a bunch of near misses? Most people respond with something along the lines "That moron, he is going to get himself killed."
I think there are a lot of people who get angry at people who put themselves in danger, and most people on cars will avoid bicyclists and obey the laws but grow annoyed that anyone would be willing to do something so reckless as drive a bicycle on the US roadway.
Yes: When I see someone behaving irresponsibly on the road, it irritates and even angers me. If someone being irresponsible causes a wreck, I blame nobody but the person being irresponsible. This goes beyond your tunnel vision of cyclists, and on to the people in other cars who are inconvenienced by having to stop and report the wreck, and even worse, by dying.** Riding on the road is not reckless. Again you show how misinformed you are.*
I think it is a natural human characteristic to watch out for other people, which is why people will try and catch someone who starts to fall over when they are next to them.
Thanks for the non sequitur remark. It so well contradicts much of the rest of what you've said. It's also a nearly instinctive reaction turned off by people who blame the person for falling in the first place, and such people as those who believe a cyclist is at fault for being hit by an irresponsible driver.
So, just keep that in mind that not everyone who is mad at bikers necessarily hates bikes, they probably just don't want to spend their day worrying about you and what they see as a perceived death wish. If you always want to look at it from their point of view; the point of view of someone who doesn't understand that you're not necessarily trying to kill yourself.
A lot of drivers are angry at being inconvenienced, not because they're fearful that the cyclist may have been run over by another driver. They want to drive as fast as their cars can handle the road (they believe -- which is why I see people nose-diving their cars at red lights, and still ending up half-way through the intersection), and anyone who drives at or even below the speed limit is evil for being inconvenient.There are also people who believe that only fuel taxes pay for roads, and therefore cyclists don't deserve to be there. Yet again you prove yourself uninformed.
*When operating a motor vehicle, too many people (Vital_Signs included) assume the only responsibility for safety is of the people in or on that one vehicle. Too few understand their deadly potential while even driving at slow speeds through a residential area. In light of the potential for catastrophic damage to myself, my passengers (when I happen to have any), and everyone else around me, I refuse to do anything while driving but driving. I am aware that this is not how most other people think, but it is a reason people in other countries criticize Americans for so many luxury amenities in our cars to accommodate non-driving activities.
As far as riding on the road, that is the best place for a cyclist. It's why the rules are so different for a cyclist than for a pedestrian. It is our demand to be treated with as much respect as any other vehicle operator on, as you said, US road ways.
**If you believe the cyclist was asking to be hit, you're doing nothing more than victim blaming. According to your logic, if I drive like an idiot and hit someone, I'm to blame, but the person I hit should know better than to be on the road when I am. I mean, seriously: How can they not know that Moron Blinkie will come barreling down the road across the center line with the accelerator pedal on the floor, and absolutely no brakes? It's completely their fault for being there, too. MMhm ... It's my fault, but they get the blame.
I really hate when I see such illogic from someone attempting to educate people. Fear is no state to maintain; it leads to ill-thought behavior. If you read these forums, you'll see many posts of aggressive drivers, close calls, people not paying attention to cyclists, bad cyclist behavior, etc. But none of it is declared reason to stay off the road. It's all reason to be more alert, more visible, to TAKE THE LANE, and generally be more responsible.
Even before I was a cyclist, I've had reason to consider the safety of people on the road. I've seen a good bit of irresponsibly cyclists, but over all they're the exception. I have much more often seen motorists being deliberately dangerous towards cyclists. Hell, my boss even ran a coworker off the road once "as a joke" for being on a bike and not in a car. He can never understand the criticism he receives for his actions. I've seen too much to list here. In every case, I've witnessed a cyclist having to make a decision to keep riding, hold a safe distance from the curb or parked traffic, and wait until the jackwagon nearly killing them decides to pass. Never is the choice to ride on the sidewalk. Never is it to just not ride. The near death isn't because the cyclist is on the road, it's because someone decided to be a moron, or has severe anger control issues.
And with your sweeping justifications in favor of motorists, you failed to mention pedestrians. With your logic, it's too dangerous to walk across a road, or in a parking lot for that matter. But you find riding a bicycle on the sidewalk a reasonable option, regardless of how it affects pedestrians.
Before you try to keep blaming cyclists for drivers' actions, you need to be a bit better educated on how responsibility works. But then, you did say you're in Florida, which explains a lot.