surreal

I see what you're saying, but few corners of the internet are quite as flagrant as this one. Even most of the BF sub-forums aren't quite like this, with the exception of the Advocacy forum.... SS/FG is an ugly place, but that's more about hecklishness and rude behavior than weird requests for citations and studies to back up fairly benign assertions... This is one of the only bike-related forums where you need annotations for anything you type, opinions included.

Weirdest part is the car sympathizers. I get it that cars have become an intrinsic part of our culture, and I get it that we rely on internal combustion to transport most of our stuff, at some point, no matter how far we try to remove ourselves from reliance on autos. I also get it that some ppl need to use autos routinely due to health reasons, location reasons, family reasons, etc... But who could possibly argue that the current rate and degree of auto usage is anywhere near sustainable or sane? And why do ppl use "anti-car" as a disparaging term on a CF forum? Why do anti-car ppl try to deny being anti-car?

I drive a truck, I drive a big ol' van at work all the time, and I see 4wheeled car-type vehicles as a positive component of modern life, b/c some folks really do need them... and, further, we all rely on internal combustion to move necessities from place to place. Even given all of that, I'm OK with being called anti-car, b/c I feel that the way we ("we" being defined as the ppl of the USA, in large, bulky, generalized terms) currently use automobiles is unhealthy for us and for the Earth, as well as the economy.

We shouldn't abandon the truth about the ill effects of rampant auto use, just b/c books written on the subject fell out of fashion a decade ago. To see transportation cyclists falling over themselves to defend the auto from its critics on a supposed LCF forum is, frankly, embarrassing. I drive, wish I didn't have to, but I realize I'm guilty of reliance on autos. That's embarrassing for me, too, b/c as I see it, autos have:
-contributed to sprawl
-contributed to the decline of urban centers
-contributed to inflation, due to the usury involved in auto loans as well as the role in the automobile in the viability of suburban McMansions and their ilk, which are probably the biggest factor in debt-slavery in the USA since the 1950s.
-contributed to the decline of urban rail
-contributed to pollution, in the form of exhaust gases, erosion caused by the highway system and parking lots, and landfills full of tires and other non-recyclable parts from discarded autos. Oh, and the auto has contributed to the distribution of litter, even if litter would exist regardless.... autos have allowed litterbugs to spread their discarded flotsam much further afield.
-contributed to widespread health problems, including obesity and various respiration issues.
-contributed to the waste of steel, which is a crying shame b/c i like steel.

Do I really need to annotate that? Does anyone really not know that this is true? One could argue that these issues would exist without the car, and that's true, but to what degree? One could also argue that bikes have cost us in terms of money and resources, and that's true, but does it actually compare? Such arguments are silly, but ppl on LCF still seem to enjoy making them.

The OP brought up a discussion in good faith and with seemingly good intentions, but ppl accused him of being a dumpster-vegan couch-surfer with an annoying agenda and a fetish for Armageddon fantasies, who hates cars. An odd reaction to a question as to why ordinary N.American folks are so resistant to car-free living, or even discussions about it. Denying that ppl resist the notion of CF lifestyles is daft, considering that many mainstream politicians have worked anti-transpotation-cycling stances into their platforms, often successfully.