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Old 07-30-15, 08:30 AM   #1
gsteinb
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Training Status??? (IV)

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Old 07-30-15, 08:33 AM   #2
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Power has been off all of July...luckily I was reminded I had a vacation in week one, a bike crash in week two, and a car crash in week three. I'm getting in miles but not quality miles since I can't sprint and I've missed the weekend rides. At least now both my ankles are weak!

On the plus side I think the extra 100 miles a week from commuting is going to help some. I'm hoping in 1-2 weeks my body will normalize and I'll start peaking. Unfortunately, we only have 3 races left and our winter races are up in the air since a promoter has been mia.

Also, thanks for locking the other thread, now my tears will finally dry up!

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Old 07-30-15, 09:17 AM   #3
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45 minutes of technical single track on the MTB for the inaugural power meter ride. Went really hard and was basically destroyed by the end. NP was right in the middle of Z2 and the zone distribution is totally unimpressive. 4 minutes each in Z3, Z4, Z5, and Z6+.

Granted I slept horribly last night and it's outrageously muggy, but still, that's amazing to me. I had to cut the ride short because I had nothing left.

I was surprised by the numbers when I uploaded the file, because whenever I would glance at the power in the middle of a tough climby section I would see 500+ watts.

So why is perceived effort, well not just perceived but actual physiological effort, so crazily much higher than power for mountain biking?

- Torque. Maybe this varies from person to person, but I find high torque low cadence efforts to be much more exhausting than the inverse, even at the same power output. On a road bike you can manage cadence; grinding up a rooty 25% hill in 22/36 not so much.

- Arms and core strength used keeping yourself upright, which doesn't go into the pedals.

- No recovery. Here's a random 3 minutes of power output. AP for this piece was only 217w, but there are 5 separate efforts over 450w.



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Old 07-30-15, 10:02 AM   #4
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I'm on the first page, third reply at that. Three is my favorite number.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:15 AM   #5
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Group ride last night. Still finding my legs after two weeks off and really wanted to be able to just sit at the back and get some miles without high stress. Unfortunately the group was small due to the heat (108F when we rolled out) and I ended up going harder than I wanted. So I rode till I popped, peeled off, and rode home. It's going to take awhile to dig back out of this midseason hole, but so be it.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:23 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
45 minutes of technical single track on the MTB for the inaugural power meter ride. Went really hard and was basically destroyed by the end. NP was right in the middle of Z2 and the zone distribution is totally unimpressive. 4 minutes each in Z3, Z4, Z5, and Z6+.

Granted I slept horribly last night and it's outrageously muggy, but still, that's amazing to me. I had to cut the ride short because I had nothing left.

I was surprised by the numbers when I uploaded the file, because whenever I would glance at the power in the middle of a tough climby section I would see 500+ watts.

So why is perceived effort, well not just perceived but actual physiological effort, so crazily much higher than power for mountain biking?

- Torque. Maybe this varies from person to person, but I find high torque low cadence efforts to be much more exhausting than the inverse, even at the same power output. On a road bike you can manage cadence; grinding up a rooty 25% hill in 22/36 not so much.

- Arms and core strength used keeping yourself upright, which doesn't go into the pedals.

- No recovery. Here's a random 3 minutes of power output. AP for this piece was only 217w, but there are 5 separate efforts over 450w.
You'll get used to it. What is your bike setup? 1x? 2x? I'm running a 36 x 10-42 in CO this summer, about to switch to a 34t oval chainring. Here's a more or less flat segment along a valley outside of Fort Collins, CO. It was 105 degrees out there, so it wasn't exactly the best effort I've ever done, but as you can see, cadence, speed, and power are both highly variable. I wasn't taking any risks, and was doing my best to stay smooth through the corners.

https://www.strava.com/segments/2136327?filter=overall
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Old 07-30-15, 11:31 AM   #7
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44/22 11x36. Envious of your XX1 setup.

I'm thinking I'll leave the TSS as is for fitness/fatigue stuff. Previously I was estimating TSS for MTB rides. Those estimates now seem high compared to actual TSS though honestly I think the estimates are a better reflection of the actual physiological training load.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:55 AM   #8
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not mtb but whenever i ride trails on my cross bike i'm absolutely wrecked afterwards.
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Old 07-30-15, 12:10 PM   #9
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Did some scouting yesterday for weekly cyclocross practice (starts in two weeks!), this morning did a CX bike trail ride with a friend. Totally smashed for some reason despite what was objectively a pretty easy ride. Probably insufficient sleep + back on the bike after barely riding for a week and a half.
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Old 07-31-15, 10:15 AM   #10
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Fast group ride last night. One of my better Thursday night performances. Took back a QOM and picked up a sprint.

56.6km, 1hr44min, weighted avg pwr 186, NP 208.

Today is a 45min recovery spin on my Kickr. Tomorrow is a fast group ride. Getting ready for next weekend's crits. They'll be my first races as a marked person.
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Old 07-31-15, 09:19 PM   #11
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First week of commuting is in the books. So far I'm at 200 miles for the week, may crack 300 for the first time. I'm quickly learning that people who train and commute are playing an entirely different game than those who just train; the added volume isn't necessarily quality volume. Maybe somehow long term it helps...well see!

So far its too easy to tell if there are racing benefits to it; daily it add 40 tss and 25 miles. Obviously you can mix in your training during your commute but its a short trip so its not a strategy to rely on.
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Old 07-31-15, 09:48 PM   #12
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mfw when gsteinb turns out to be a Meek Mill fan.
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Old 08-01-15, 02:44 AM   #13
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44/22 11x36. Envious of your XX1 setup.

I'm thinking I'll leave the TSS as is for fitness/fatigue stuff. Previously I was estimating TSS for MTB rides. Those estimates now seem high compared to actual TSS though honestly I think the estimates are a better reflection of the actual physiological training load.
IME, as said a few months back when this came up, estimates of TSS for MTB (based on RPE or hrTSS) tend to be high vs actual power on the MTB.

i believe there is quite a bit of energy that goes into maintaining traction (core strength, balance) and even suspension (shock, but even fat tires at low pressure) that causes power to be lower than RPE might suggest.

definitely can vary based on local terrain, but the above is generally true.

it's just my opinion, but i disagree about the estimates being a better reflection of training load. as an analogy, if you pedal threshold for an hour in cool temps vs heat, the latter feels tougher, but does it really induce a better training effect and warrant over-estimation of load? so, too, for the mtb....might feel harder, but you're measuring power to the pedals. perhaps your answer is different than mine, and that's all good, but it is worth thinking about.

personally i feel like power on the MTB is nice to have as a record of what was done OR as a way to evaluate the demands of racing a MTB so they can be modeled in training -- but it's not so useful a tool DURING training or racing. at least that has been my experience in riding/racing with power on my MTBs.

also, your physiology may find high torque scenarios more difficult to deal with, or you may not deal as well with the generally more stochastic nature of pushing hard on the MTB vs road.
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Old 08-01-15, 09:35 AM   #14
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Team ride this morning. Another horrible night's sleep thanks to my 15 year old's two friends who stayed over. Nothing like yelling "go the **** to bed!" at your own kid, out the window, at 3am.

Ride was fun though. I've really been working on sprint mechanics which don't come naturally to me. It's been paying off on the team rides where I've been cleaning up the sprints lately, much to the annoyance of our actual sprinter. I've gotten really good at getting inside his head, which doesn't have much application to racing but is sort of fun

Still working on getting things dialed in -- I have to figure out how to keep more weight over the front to keep the front wheel from skipping -- but it finally feels like some sort of penny has dropped. Power and speed are way improved from last year.

I've always thought I should be better at sprinting just based on body type so it's rewarding to improve. I'll never be a "sprinter" but it's nice to not feel like any race that comes down to a field sprint is a totally lost cause.
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Old 08-01-15, 09:48 AM   #15
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87km fast group ride. I wasn't feeling great in the morning and was expecting to get dropped, but I didn't. I guess I'm getting fitter.

2hr25min, avg pwr 178, NP 194, avg speed 35.9kmph, TS 177.
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Old 08-01-15, 11:16 AM   #16
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In the spirit of end-of season laziness, I've decided to forego my 3hr z2 ride with sleeping in, playing video games, playing piano and going on a 1hr ride .

Tomorrow: warm-up hike for Sept. High Sierra trip.

I'm curious to see how low my CTL gets by the end of the month. Although this may seem contradictory, but I'm exited to scale back bike time for 4-6 weeks in favor of other activities, and to begin base training again in Sept.
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Old 08-01-15, 01:02 PM   #17
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65 miles with, for the most part, 3 others. Did some paceline rotation for a few miles. Hadn't done that in a long time. We were reasonably smooth, almost like a merry go round moving along.
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Old 08-01-15, 01:04 PM   #18
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78mi 4:26 club ride with some climbing. The shoulder is fine but my fitness at VO2Max is crap as usual. Laid down some suffering in the last 15 miles and crushed the final sprint.
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Old 08-01-15, 02:06 PM   #19
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tt practice. no cones or start line and still PR'd the segment. looks about 12 seconds. crosswind today too.

https://www.strava.com/activities/358824510
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Old 08-01-15, 05:30 PM   #20
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when I saw fudgy I thought he was wearing tall white socks but he was wearing tiny tt socks! #sotan
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Old 08-01-15, 06:37 PM   #21
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Week in training: accidental recovery week. With sleeping in Tuesday and crashing in my first race Wednesday night, barely got over 100 miles monday thru friday. Thursday got a good hard group ride in, yesterday rested. Race tomorrow, same race I won last time so rested mostly today. Went out for an hour and a half pretty easy, but when I came upon Mount Eden I went all out. 3 minutes to the top, a minute of flattish, a minute descent, and a minute straight to the stop sign good for 2nd on Strava. Top page on the climbing part.
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Old 08-01-15, 07:07 PM   #22
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aaronmcd crash counter reset!

first since you ran that cyclist over with your car?
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Old 08-01-15, 07:30 PM   #23
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Yep. I think so? Hard to keep track! This one wasn't bad, but it was expensive. Took the wheels in today to have them rebuilt. Rims, spokes, labor, tires, its gonna be over $600
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Old 08-01-15, 07:31 PM   #24
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aaronmcd crash counter reset!

first since you ran that cyclist over with your car?
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Old 08-01-15, 07:37 PM   #25
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Didn't he crash at the track this week...?
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