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  1. #1
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    A TT thread for a self important mod who hates pinned threads

    Maybe it's August burnout. Maybe it's because there's a TT 10 miles from house today, but I'm thinking of building a TT bike again. It's imaginary money that I'd need to dump from somewhere (it would probably require the added expenditure of marriage counseling). Aside from all the fun 'what bike' conversations, what powermeter? I have an ultegra compact on my up north bike right now. That bikes sees occasional use in races. Weekend training bike out of season. I could throw a stages on there. I'd need to buy a head, which sucks because I already have a PC7 for that bike. Would I be miserable with the stages?

    What do I really need to spend to get slippery enough to be a contender in the ultra competitive NJ TT scene?

  2. #2
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    I think Stages would be fine for a TT bike if you have pretty good L-R balance to begin with. Fred Thomas uses one and won nationals with it (on a power output that indicates he has really got his position and pacing dialed)

    You don't need to spend 10k for a superbike if you are good at building up your own bike and shopping on ebay. This whole setup was accomplished for less than half that...

    2009 Shiv frame (nosecone, ebay new old stock)
    2008 DA group (takeoffs from two bikes ago)
    HED stinger 90 front tub(private sale, used)
    Zipp 900 disc tub (new, on sale)
    SRM wired, rebuilt with new ANT+ guts by SRM (also private sale, used, Good replacement deal from SRM)
    Garmin 500, used on all bikes
    Saddle, Prologo, new
    Skinsuit, Castelli, new, bought from the UK
    Helmet, Giro selector, private sale, used

    With all that stuff, I have got it down to .200 CdA in calm conditions, and got past the 27mph mark with power less than 260w (on a not-totally-flat course)

    Of course, it has taken a few years to get used to the ultra-aggressive body position (which is the main issue)

    Also, being OK with swapping power for speed, since the position does rob me of some watts, but all that matters is speed.

  3. #3
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    stages would be for my north country bike. training (read: intervals) and hill climbs. I have a standard srm for that bike I'd put on a TT bike

  4. #4
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    You don't need to spend 10k for a superbike if you are good at building up your own bike and shopping on ebay.
    so you're saying I should budget 15k?

  5. #5
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Intervals on the mountain in climbing position will help, but if you aren't also doing some hard efforts in TT position...

    Let's just say that I don't believe that even 9 out of 10 people that I ride with could be faster than they are now, even if they jumped on my TT bike.

  6. #6
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    so you're saying I should budget 15k?

    yes.

    the extra 10k is a consultation fee. I'll throw in a table.

  7. #7
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    Intervals on the mountain in climbing position will help, but if you aren't also doing some hard efforts in TT position...

    Let's just say that I don't believe that even 9 out of 10 people that I ride with could be faster than they are now, even if they jumped on my TT bike.
    you're dancing all over. we're talking gear. no offense intended, I got the training part covered.

  8. #8
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    you're dancing all over. we're talking gear. no offense, but I got the training part covered.
    well, my fiance is a dancer

  9. #9
    fuggitivo solitario
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Maybe it's August burnout. Maybe it's because there's a TT 10 miles from house today, but I'm thinking of building a TT bike again. It's imaginary money that I'd need to dump from somewhere (it would probably require the added expenditure of marriage counseling). Aside from all the fun 'what bike' conversations, what powermeter? I have an ultegra compact on my up north bike right now. That bikes sees occasional use in races. Weekend training bike out of season. I could throw a stages on there. I'd need to buy a head, which sucks because I already have a PC7 for that bike. Would I be miserable with the stages?

    What do I really need to spend to get slippery enough to be a contender in the ultra competitive NJ TT scene?
    Four words for you:


    what would kurt say?

  10. #10
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    last check budget stuff gets worked out exclusive of your coach. do you need help peeing as well? one could also assume I might actually have a communication line with my coach exclusive of some public interchange on a message forum. oy

  11. #11
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    this looks like a pretty good view of what you will have to do to be "competitive" in NJ.

    Strava Segment | Rt. 29 10 mile TT Frenchtown to Stockton

    I think 29 average for flat 10mi gets you solidly in the running.

    I think the first two guys were fibbing.

  12. #12
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    important announcement:

    All threads in the racing forum will be locked until we receive notice from individual coaches that the content is approved. The moderation team recognizes that this poses issues for matt and fudgy. The concession will be made that they can stand in for one another. Please work on this and feel free to utilize the 41 in the interim. Thank you.

  13. #13
    Has a magic bike Heathpack's Avatar
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    List from my fitter on best TT bikes for me (based on prepurchase fit for me individually, so obviously YMMV). He does a lot of aero testing on equipment, is an extremely knowledgable guy. These are for 2015 bikes because I wanted to buy new, I just don't know a large enough pool of people to find a used hike on my timeframe. The aerodynamic nuances of TT bikes sometimes vary by model year. For example, he says "No" on the 2015 Shiv.

    Fuji Norcom Straight
    Cervelo P2 or P3
    Felt DA1
    Trek Speed Concept
    BMC Time Machine
    A Look who's name I can't remember b/c it was so ugly I never considered it

    The Trek is the pick of the litter but overpriced. The Felt DA1 is the second contender, great bike, medium expensive. The BMC is also overpriced.

    On that list, the Fuji can be had for just under $2000 and the Cervelo P2 just over. Right now, because they're trying to clear out 2015 stock.

    If you need wheels, per fitter best budget choice is Flo. Not best choice but definitely best budget price. New wheelset will be around $1000.

    I will be back for a post-purchase fit Friday and I'll get the rest of his reccs. He has already said helmets you really have to test, but there is one helmet that pretty much seems to work for everyone. I forgot to write it down, but I'll get the info soon enough.

    As far as power goes, you know that I'm going to say the Stages is a crapshoot. You might get lucky like 85% of posters here and get a Stages unit that works. Or unlucky like 10% of people that have problems. Or really unlucky like 5% of people for whom the Stages don't work at all. I dont know what the exact numbers are, but you get the idea. So I guess that boils down to how you're going to feel if you're in the minority of people for whom the Stages don't work. Is it a trivial outlay of $ for you? Stages is going to expect you to troubleshoot the thing when it fails and they will ask you to do the same troubleshooting steps over and over and over. If you get a Garmin, be aware Stages and Garmin will not talk to each other. If it's not obvious that the problem is with the Stages, you may be trouble shooting with Garmin as well. Same deal, they have you endlessly repeat the same troubleshooting steps. Hours of work for you. So you have to decided how you would feel about being asked to put this much time into the care & feeding of a powermeter-head unit combo. Obviously this is not how it goes down for the majority of customers, but if youre in the unlucky minority, will you roll with the punches or be annoyed? I actually dont have tons of spare time, i get annoyed. So based on my personal experience, I'd advise against the Stages, to me it is not worth the risk. If you don't get annoyed by stuff like this and don't mind the possibly wasted expense, the Stages might work for you.

    <To be fair to Stages, they currently have both my PMs. Maybe they can fix them or come up with a solution that will leave me less annoyed.>

    Ahead of all this, by far the most important thing you can do to be competitve on a TT bike is to optimize your position on the bike. A good position is vastly more important than all equipment choices. Equipment is not trivial it's just that position is king.
    Last edited by Heathpack; 08-01-15 at 06:55 AM.

  14. #14
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    thanks!

  15. #15
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    P2 and Speed Concept 7 are quality 'budget' bikes, I put that in quotes because only a cyclist would see those prices as budget.

    I think Stages are great for TT's. The issue with them is sprinting, as that first kick is dominant in one leg, which isn't good for a single leg PM. That's not an issue for a steady TT though.

  16. #16
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    I've been lucky with the stages.. got one for the wife (165mm cranks) and since I'm not exactly tall myself, when I built my TT super bike decided to get 165mm cranks too..so I could "share" the stages. I was going to go the same route as you and try to keep expenses way way down, but ended up building a 10k super bike for about 5.. eBay and 400 miles driving in the middle of night craigslist deals.

    Ended up with a BMC Time Machine TM01...full 9070... way more bike then I need.

  17. #17
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I already have a SRM that would be for a TT bike. Id pull it off my bike and id either suffer through getting a compact SRM or a stages for the ultegra compact I use for the steeper hill climbs.

    Just back from the silver mine TT. Huge eddy class. East coast national crit next year. Maybe I need to step away from the Internet and focus.

  18. #18
    Senior Member wens's Avatar
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    I think I'd be ok with a stages as an occasional use item, especially on an ultegra crank. And I'm certainly not a fanboy, I'm getting away from mine because it doesn't meet my needs.
    Do you think we're gonna make it? / I don't know unless we try \ you could sit here scared to move / or we could take them by surprise

  19. #19
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    It depends.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

    Cat: Killer

  20. #20
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    30 people in the 'non TT gear' class.

  21. #21
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    You can get a brand new Felt B2 for a bit over 3 grand with Di2. Add fast wheels.

  22. #22
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    I need to try and borrow fast wheels for nationals... coach said so.

    twitter.com/ygduf
    strava.com/athletes/ygduf

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    I need to try and borrow fast wheels for nationals... coach said so.
    thought you had HED3 and a Disk ? if not when is nationals ... I'm down for a loaner for a good cause. HED3 front.. Jet+ disc rear.... I know you like clinchers.

  24. #24
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    thought you had HED3 and a Disk ? if not when is nationals ... I'm down for a loaner for a good cause. HED3 front.. Jet+ disc rear.... I know you like clinchers.
    thanks, but I'm looking to borrow zipp tubulars for a race where a second or two might 6th vs 5th.

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  25. #25
    Senior Member wens's Avatar
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    What's the tire on the hed? If it's a 19-20 mm tire with good crr and there's little wind that's probably the fastest front wheel you could get.
    Do you think we're gonna make it? / I don't know unless we try \ you could sit here scared to move / or we could take them by surprise

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