Novice training question about FTP and adaptation
08-26-15, 10:39 AM
#26
Senior Member
Usually "max effort" means the best effort you can maintain for 20 minutes. If it helps to target a specific % of FTP that's fine, but if your max effort is higher or lower than that number it'll either be sub-max (by definition) or too high and you'll have to back off. I'm not sure what your level of experience with endurance workouts is, on the bike or running, rowing, whatever, but the newer you are, the more helpful it can be to work on your sense of RPE through pacing at least partly by feel. The flipside of that comment is that the power meter can help you realize that you are able to go harder than you think.
08-27-15, 12:32 PM
#27
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You are right, probably I didn't give you guys enough info. Thanks for the long and insightful comment. (Although my OP was just a generic wondering about FTP adaptation)
I've been riding for 2 years now and I didn't do any structured training until now. I'm 32, I rode a lot and completed numerous sportive events, like the Death Ride in Alpine County. I got quite bored of those, so I bought a power meter to start training and see how can I get better, because I felt I stopped improving recently.
My No.1. goal is to have better times on strava segments and beat my friends on longish climbs last ~20-60 mins.
My secondary goal is to start racing in Cat 5 very early next year just to test myself.
Based on my first tests and fluctuating weight (129-132 lbs) currently my FTP is around 3.8-3.93 W/kg, but I suck at everything under 5 mins (I haven't done formal tests for these, but I know for sure that this is my weakness). I only want to focus on shorter distances when the racing season begins and it turns out I want to do more racing.
I've been riding for 2 years now and I didn't do any structured training until now. I'm 32, I rode a lot and completed numerous sportive events, like the Death Ride in Alpine County. I got quite bored of those, so I bought a power meter to start training and see how can I get better, because I felt I stopped improving recently.
My No.1. goal is to have better times on strava segments and beat my friends on longish climbs last ~20-60 mins.
My secondary goal is to start racing in Cat 5 very early next year just to test myself.
Based on my first tests and fluctuating weight (129-132 lbs) currently my FTP is around 3.8-3.93 W/kg, but I suck at everything under 5 mins (I haven't done formal tests for these, but I know for sure that this is my weakness). I only want to focus on shorter distances when the racing season begins and it turns out I want to do more racing.
You probably have a bit of room for improvement since you've only been riding for a couple of years with no structured training, but personally I'd skip the structured training between now and January, and just continue to enjoy riding. Some people (looking in a mirror while raising my hand) take structured training too seriously and it stops being "fun" after awhile.
You mention wanting to beat your friends on longish climbs and improve your strava segments, so go do that for the rest of the year.
Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Monday off.
Do your local "worlds" group ride both Tuesday and Thursday. When you get dropped, ride as hard as you can back to your house/car/etc -- this is your punishment for getting dropped. When you stop getting dropped, start taking pulls.
Wednesday - Ride "medium" for 90-120 minutes (some call it zone two, basically at a pace you can carry on a conversation, but you are working).
Friday - either off or very easy for 30 minutes.
Saturday warm-up for 30-60 minutes then go find a 20-60 minute climb/strava segment and kill it as hard as you can.
Sunday - "zone 2" for 120-180 minutes.
When you're 12 weeks off from race season go ahead and take a 1 or 2 week break off the bike. Use this as a time to rest because then start with the periodized training.
When you're 10 weeks off from race season do a "base" block. We're talking lots of Z2 work. 3 weeks of it, building in volume a little each week (but never more than a 10% increase). On the 4th week reduce volume by 25-30% to recover.
When you're 6 weeks off from race season, start doing 20 minute intervals (2 to 3 a session) two days a week with some Z2 in between for a full block (3 weeks on, 1 week reduced volume).
When you're 2 weeks off from race season, switch the 20 minute intervals to 3-5 minute intervals. Hate your life. Hate me for suggesting it. My least favorite work-out of that type is 9x 3 minute intervals, the entire session takes about 80-90 minutes and I usually want to crawl whimpering away from it.
Take this for what you paid for it, it's my suggestion about what I would do, but you're free to ignore it if you like.
Best of luck to you.
08-27-15, 05:20 PM
#28
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FTP riding can be hard during a normal training week with everything else going on.
I usually shoot for 30-40 minutes of something close to FTP in whatever chunk I get them in, though 10 mins is a bit on the short side.
I don't think I could handle 60 minutes of FTP and be worth much for the rest of the week.
I usually shoot for 30-40 minutes of something close to FTP in whatever chunk I get them in, though 10 mins is a bit on the short side.
I don't think I could handle 60 minutes of FTP and be worth much for the rest of the week.
08-27-15, 11:22 PM
#29
Senior Member
When does racing season start?
You probably have a bit of room for improvement since you've only been riding for a couple of years with no structured training, but personally I'd skip the structured training between now and January, and just continue to enjoy riding. Some people (looking in a mirror while raising my hand) take structured training too seriously and it stops being "fun" after awhile.
You mention wanting to beat your friends on longish climbs and improve your strava segments, so go do that for the rest of the year.
Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Monday off.
Do your local "worlds" group ride both Tuesday and Thursday. When you get dropped, ride as hard as you can back to your house/car/etc -- this is your punishment for getting dropped. When you stop getting dropped, start taking pulls.
Wednesday - Ride "medium" for 90-120 minutes (some call it zone two, basically at a pace you can carry on a conversation, but you are working).
Friday - either off or very easy for 30 minutes.
Saturday warm-up for 30-60 minutes then go find a 20-60 minute climb/strava segment and kill it as hard as you can.
Sunday - "zone 2" for 120-180 minutes.
When you're 12 weeks off from race season go ahead and take a 1 or 2 week break off the bike. Use this as a time to rest because then start with the periodized training.
When you're 10 weeks off from race season do a "base" block. We're talking lots of Z2 work. 3 weeks of it, building in volume a little each week (but never more than a 10% increase). On the 4th week reduce volume by 25-30% to recover.
When you're 6 weeks off from race season, start doing 20 minute intervals (2 to 3 a session) two days a week with some Z2 in between for a full block (3 weeks on, 1 week reduced volume).
When you're 2 weeks off from race season, switch the 20 minute intervals to 3-5 minute intervals. Hate your life. Hate me for suggesting it. My least favorite work-out of that type is 9x 3 minute intervals, the entire session takes about 80-90 minutes and I usually want to crawl whimpering away from it.
Take this for what you paid for it, it's my suggestion about what I would do, but you're free to ignore it if you like.
Best of luck to you.
You probably have a bit of room for improvement since you've only been riding for a couple of years with no structured training, but personally I'd skip the structured training between now and January, and just continue to enjoy riding. Some people (looking in a mirror while raising my hand) take structured training too seriously and it stops being "fun" after awhile.
You mention wanting to beat your friends on longish climbs and improve your strava segments, so go do that for the rest of the year.
Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Monday off.
Do your local "worlds" group ride both Tuesday and Thursday. When you get dropped, ride as hard as you can back to your house/car/etc -- this is your punishment for getting dropped. When you stop getting dropped, start taking pulls.
Wednesday - Ride "medium" for 90-120 minutes (some call it zone two, basically at a pace you can carry on a conversation, but you are working).
Friday - either off or very easy for 30 minutes.
Saturday warm-up for 30-60 minutes then go find a 20-60 minute climb/strava segment and kill it as hard as you can.
Sunday - "zone 2" for 120-180 minutes.
When you're 12 weeks off from race season go ahead and take a 1 or 2 week break off the bike. Use this as a time to rest because then start with the periodized training.
When you're 10 weeks off from race season do a "base" block. We're talking lots of Z2 work. 3 weeks of it, building in volume a little each week (but never more than a 10% increase). On the 4th week reduce volume by 25-30% to recover.
When you're 6 weeks off from race season, start doing 20 minute intervals (2 to 3 a session) two days a week with some Z2 in between for a full block (3 weeks on, 1 week reduced volume).
When you're 2 weeks off from race season, switch the 20 minute intervals to 3-5 minute intervals. Hate your life. Hate me for suggesting it. My least favorite work-out of that type is 9x 3 minute intervals, the entire session takes about 80-90 minutes and I usually want to crawl whimpering away from it.
Take this for what you paid for it, it's my suggestion about what I would do, but you're free to ignore it if you like.
Best of luck to you.
08-28-15, 11:30 AM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
When does racing season start?
You probably have a bit of room for improvement since you've only been riding for a couple of years with no structured training, but personally I'd skip the structured training between now and January, and just continue to enjoy riding. Some people (looking in a mirror while raising my hand) take structured training too seriously and it stops being "fun" after awhile.
You mention wanting to beat your friends on longish climbs and improve your strava segments, so go do that for the rest of the year.
Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Monday off.
Do your local "worlds" group ride both Tuesday and Thursday. When you get dropped, ride as hard as you can back to your house/car/etc -- this is your punishment for getting dropped. When you stop getting dropped, start taking pulls.
Wednesday - Ride "medium" for 90-120 minutes (some call it zone two, basically at a pace you can carry on a conversation, but you are working).
Friday - either off or very easy for 30 minutes.
Saturday warm-up for 30-60 minutes then go find a 20-60 minute climb/strava segment and kill it as hard as you can.
Sunday - "zone 2" for 120-180 minutes.
When you're 12 weeks off from race season go ahead and take a 1 or 2 week break off the bike. Use this as a time to rest because then start with the periodized training.
When you're 10 weeks off from race season do a "base" block. We're talking lots of Z2 work. 3 weeks of it, building in volume a little each week (but never more than a 10% increase). On the 4th week reduce volume by 25-30% to recover.
When you're 6 weeks off from race season, start doing 20 minute intervals (2 to 3 a session) two days a week with some Z2 in between for a full block (3 weeks on, 1 week reduced volume).
When you're 2 weeks off from race season, switch the 20 minute intervals to 3-5 minute intervals. Hate your life. Hate me for suggesting it. My least favorite work-out of that type is 9x 3 minute intervals, the entire session takes about 80-90 minutes and I usually want to crawl whimpering away from it.
Take this for what you paid for it, it's my suggestion about what I would do, but you're free to ignore it if you like.
Best of luck to you.
You probably have a bit of room for improvement since you've only been riding for a couple of years with no structured training, but personally I'd skip the structured training between now and January, and just continue to enjoy riding. Some people (looking in a mirror while raising my hand) take structured training too seriously and it stops being "fun" after awhile.
You mention wanting to beat your friends on longish climbs and improve your strava segments, so go do that for the rest of the year.
Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Monday off.
Do your local "worlds" group ride both Tuesday and Thursday. When you get dropped, ride as hard as you can back to your house/car/etc -- this is your punishment for getting dropped. When you stop getting dropped, start taking pulls.
Wednesday - Ride "medium" for 90-120 minutes (some call it zone two, basically at a pace you can carry on a conversation, but you are working).
Friday - either off or very easy for 30 minutes.
Saturday warm-up for 30-60 minutes then go find a 20-60 minute climb/strava segment and kill it as hard as you can.
Sunday - "zone 2" for 120-180 minutes.
When you're 12 weeks off from race season go ahead and take a 1 or 2 week break off the bike. Use this as a time to rest because then start with the periodized training.
When you're 10 weeks off from race season do a "base" block. We're talking lots of Z2 work. 3 weeks of it, building in volume a little each week (but never more than a 10% increase). On the 4th week reduce volume by 25-30% to recover.
When you're 6 weeks off from race season, start doing 20 minute intervals (2 to 3 a session) two days a week with some Z2 in between for a full block (3 weeks on, 1 week reduced volume).
When you're 2 weeks off from race season, switch the 20 minute intervals to 3-5 minute intervals. Hate your life. Hate me for suggesting it. My least favorite work-out of that type is 9x 3 minute intervals, the entire session takes about 80-90 minutes and I usually want to crawl whimpering away from it.
Take this for what you paid for it, it's my suggestion about what I would do, but you're free to ignore it if you like.
Best of luck to you.
Man, thank you for this. It's funny that when I was looking for a plan online it's so hard to find something suitable. It sounds good and maybe I will give it a go. Why not? I know that it's a dumb question, but what is a "worlds" group ride?
08-28-15, 03:35 PM
#32
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It's sort of a joke, that it's the Tuesday Night World Championships, because people race it that hard.
08-31-15, 07:17 AM
#33
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The fastest gnarliest local group ride you can find.
08-31-15, 07:24 AM
#34
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If you're in San Francisco area.. NorCal Group Rides: Cycling and Training In the Bay Area | NorCal Cycling News - Cycling and Racing in Northern California
Options: Park Ride, Penn Velo ride, Headland, POO ride, River Ride. Being from Florida, I have no idea about how fast those rides are.
Also group rides frequently have a certain etiquette. Respect that.
Options: Park Ride, Penn Velo ride, Headland, POO ride, River Ride. Being from Florida, I have no idea about how fast those rides are.
Also group rides frequently have a certain etiquette. Respect that.
08-31-15, 07:58 AM
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I grew up and lived in Vero Beach my whole life, so I knew the rides on that side of the state. Any info to share about the west coast? I'm having trouble finding faster rides in Tampa (just moved over here two weeks ago.) Seems like a ton of tri-guys who all train pretty solo so far...
08-31-15, 08:29 AM
#36
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I'd ask the guys at Florida Velo. Riding & Training
08-31-15, 09:49 AM
#37
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You are right, probably I didn't give you guys enough info. Thanks for the long and insightful comment. (Although my OP was just a generic wondering about FTP adaptation)
I've been riding for 2 years now and I didn't do any structured training until now. I'm 32, I rode a lot and completed numerous sportive events, like the Death Ride in Alpine County. I got quite bored of those, so I bought a power meter to start training and see how can I get better, because I felt I stopped improving recently.
My No.1. goal is to have better times on strava segments and beat my friends on longish climbs last ~20-60 mins.
My secondary goal is to start racing in Cat 5 very early next year just to test myself.
Based on my first tests and fluctuating weight (129-132 lbs) currently my FTP is around 3.8-3.93 W/kg, but I suck at everything under 5 mins (I haven't done formal tests for these, but I know for sure that this is my weakness). I only want to focus on shorter distances when the racing season begins and it turns out I want to do more racing.
I've been riding for 2 years now and I didn't do any structured training until now. I'm 32, I rode a lot and completed numerous sportive events, like the Death Ride in Alpine County. I got quite bored of those, so I bought a power meter to start training and see how can I get better, because I felt I stopped improving recently.
My No.1. goal is to have better times on strava segments and beat my friends on longish climbs last ~20-60 mins.
My secondary goal is to start racing in Cat 5 very early next year just to test myself.
Based on my first tests and fluctuating weight (129-132 lbs) currently my FTP is around 3.8-3.93 W/kg, but I suck at everything under 5 mins (I haven't done formal tests for these, but I know for sure that this is my weakness). I only want to focus on shorter distances when the racing season begins and it turns out I want to do more racing.
At 129-132 pounds, your weight would indicate you may be a climber. We have a hill climb series coming up called the Low Key Hill Climb series. These are HC races but structured as a training ride. The climb times are recorded and posted but the rides are not sanctioned by USAC. The first one is October 3 up Montebello road that is 5.3 miles with a 7% grade.
IMO, this series is one of the best run events in Norcal and I will do 4 of the climbs.
Also, this coming Saturday, there is a Beat the Clock time trial on Canada Road and there is a Merckx category - non aero ride your road bike. This is another well run non sanctioned training race.
Both series provide an opportunity to practice longer efforts in a competitive environment and compare yourself to other racers in the HC and TT.
08-31-15, 10:31 AM
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Are you located in SF or somewhere else in the surrounding area?
At 129-132 pounds, your weight would indicate you may be a climber. We have a hill climb series coming up called the Low Key Hill Climb series. These are HC races but structured as a training ride. The climb times are recorded and posted but the rides are not sanctioned by USAC. The first one is October 3 up Montebello road that is 5.3 miles with a 7% grade.
IMO, this series is one of the best run events in Norcal and I will do 4 of the climbs.
Also, this coming Saturday, there is a Beat the Clock time trial on Canada Road and there is a Merckx category - non aero ride your road bike. This is another well run non sanctioned training race.
Both series provide an opportunity to practice longer efforts in a competitive environment and compare yourself to other racers in the HC and TT.
At 129-132 pounds, your weight would indicate you may be a climber. We have a hill climb series coming up called the Low Key Hill Climb series. These are HC races but structured as a training ride. The climb times are recorded and posted but the rides are not sanctioned by USAC. The first one is October 3 up Montebello road that is 5.3 miles with a 7% grade.
IMO, this series is one of the best run events in Norcal and I will do 4 of the climbs.
Also, this coming Saturday, there is a Beat the Clock time trial on Canada Road and there is a Merckx category - non aero ride your road bike. This is another well run non sanctioned training race.
Both series provide an opportunity to practice longer efforts in a competitive environment and compare yourself to other racers in the HC and TT.
But these events you mentioned might be perfect to test myself a little bit.
08-31-15, 12:00 PM
#39
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I'd ask the guys at Florida Velo. Riding & Training
08-31-15, 01:48 PM
#40
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I did the Mount Tam HC a few years ago. The race starts out along PCH and then there is a hard right turn onto the climb. At that point, all hell breaks loose. However, you may think that hell had already broken loose on the 4 miles leading to the climb. Be warmed up before the start of the race. The lead up to the climb is not used by the peloton as a warmup per se.
The other race series to do is the Early Bird training series that commences next year. There are instructors, mentors and etc to help you on your cornering and other mass start racing skills.
The other race series to do is the Early Bird training series that commences next year. There are instructors, mentors and etc to help you on your cornering and other mass start racing skills.
08-31-15, 01:53 PM
#41
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if you start racing at 32 you can be good by the time you turn 35 :O
08-31-15, 01:56 PM
#42
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