petalpower

Figured I'd post this here amongst the racers as I feel we're more in tuned with our bodies, diets, and training.

Haven't raced in about 2 years, but still "train" and hit the fast group rides. This season has been ok given the fact that the winter and spring literally saw me do hardly no structured training and just riding.

Once I started hitting the group rides, of course I struggled at first, but have gotten up to speed. These are ~36mi rides with a few rollers. Feels pretty fast to me at about 24+-mph average.

What's happening to me is two fold :

1. Granted I live in a desert climate with pretty low humidity ( usually around 15% ride time ), but even on the hottest day approaching 100 on hard rides, I literally have NO sweat on me. I look around and guys are drenched and dripping.

2. I usually have a few moments into the red zone, but always make it to the unofficial sprint. Without fail, I can hold the pace leading out to the actual start of the print, but the second I go get out of the saddle, my legs just cramp and lock out. Last night, I almost couldn't make it back to my starting point do to the spasms I continued to have afterwards. I drank about 1/2 a small bottle of Pepsi and sat down for about 10 mins and I was able to make it up the stairs for a shower. I even tried taking 1.5 tabs of Hammer Perpetuem sp? in one of my bottles and felt it made things worse.

Diet is clean and natural. I drink about 4-5 cups of coffee a day. Probably drink in the neighborhood of 1gal a water a day. I consider myself pretty fit at about 149 and guessing 9%bf.

Dehydration? Undertrained? Combination of the two? Stress? I'm making an appt today to see my Dr., but figured I'd post here in the meantime to see if anyone has experienced anything similar before.

Thanks.

globecanvas

Undertrained. There is rarely a magic bullet solution for cramps. The usual cause is riding much harder and longer than your body is used to.

topflightpro

You say you live in a desert climate with low humidity and are not sweating, but that is not true. You ARE sweating, you just don't see it. It's so dry there, that your sweat is evaporating almost the minute it is excreted from your skin. That is why you stay dry. Those other guys may be tossing water on their heads, which is why they are dripping. I know that when I lived out west, that is what I had to do.

Are you salting? By that I mean are you seeing white lines form on your shorts or in other dark spots in your clothes? If so, that's a tell-tale sign that you are sweating and getting dehydrated.

Lastly, sodas like Pepsi aren't helping you. The massive amounts of sugar and caffeine will actually further deplete your body of electrolytes.

I suggest trying to drink more and try taking some electrolyte tablets before you ride.

petalpower

Thanks guys for the advice.

Haven't noticed the tell-tale white "staining" from salt laden sweat.

That's Pepsi is the first sip of soda I've taken in probably a year. If I drink a full can/16oz bottle every 3 years, that's a lot. The only liquid I consume is water, if it's not water, it's coffee in the am(2-3 12oz cups) and sometimes a medium coffee from a local shop in the afternoon.

Dan333SP

I haven't raced this year either after doing it consistently the last 3 years ($$$ is tight). I've had a similar experience on fast group rides. Not the sweating part, I sweat a ton, but the cramping when you least expect it. My total volume is the same as when I was racing, so it's really almost certainly the fact that I don't do sustained threshold efforts in my solo rides, so when I end up in a paceline at 165+ BPM for an hour on a group ride and try to attack at a sprint point, my legs don't want to give any more and start to seize. The mind says you can do it but the legs remind you you're out of shape for that type of work.

Mvcrash

Water is not a good replacement for electrolytes. I would switch to a good sports drink or use a powder in the water. Try a banana before your rides as well, the potassium helps. Also, if your not peeing, your not drinking enough.

Hermes

This^^^^^

And cadence may be a factor. Try spinning faster and lowering the forces on your leg muscles. Of course, it will be harder to spin faster and still make the required power which gets back to fitness.

carpediemracing 

My own experience with cramps is that I naturally tend to use bigger gears and lower cadence as I get closer to cramping. I try to avoid sudden moves, and spinning involves a lot of consistent sudden moves for me. I also try to change up my pedal stroke a bit, like focus on pulling up instead of pushing down, sitting far back on the saddle instead of forward, etc.

If you're truly drinking a gallon of water a day you should be peeing all the time. Combined with your coffee you're drinking 1.25-1.5 gallons of fluid a day, 5 12 oz cups is close to half a gallon. That's a lot of coffee, a lot of water.

It doesn't sound right if you're not getting that salt stain stuff.

When you're in those harder rides does your breath feel hot/dry?

Ygduf

agree

revchuck 

OP - You said you drink a gallon of water/day, but didn't indicate how much you drink when riding. I'll go through a half gallon on a 2:30 ride in the summer. I agree that fitness is probably the issue, but no salt stains? Sounds like underhydration might be a factor too.

petalpower

Thanks for the reply. I usually spin 100-120rpm. Rarely do I spin below 90. I do urinate pretty frequently. It's usually clear to tinted yellow.

I have noticed on occasion that my mouth will be hot & dry as a bone. I usually attribute that to when we're in a hard effort and I just can't drink for a few minutes.

Always (2) 20oz bottles of water. Always have about 600cal lunch about 1:30, then a banana about :30 before the ride. I always have a gel about midway point of the ride. Double Shot Espresso gel.

I dunno. Maybe I'm drinking too much caffeine? Maybe I really am dehydrated? My stools have been on the constipated side, and that would indicate dehydration too.

shovelhd

I'll join the undertrained camp, but I'll also note that if you drink a whole lot of plain water and don't add electrolytes, you are washing them out of your system. They need to be replenished. If your diet doesn't have enough of them you may start the ride at a deficit, and make it worse the longer you go.

MoAlpha

1. You're sweating. If you weren't, you'd get heat stroke on those rides.

2. The cramps, as others have pointed out, are probably related to deconditioning. Some people are also just genetically prone to them.

3. Cramps can be related to excessive sodium losses, with or without dehydration, which can make the situation worse. Potassium losses can also cause cramping, but that doesn't happen to athletes. Anyone training or racing in hot conditions should be drinking an electrolyte replacement solution with sodium, potassium, and sugar, e.g. Gatorade, instead of plain water. Cells can't absorb potassium without insulin, hence the sugar. Avoid salt tablets, if you can even get them anymore.

4. Pepsi is OK to drink, if you can tolerate the awful taste and the carbonation. It contains a decent amount of sodium (and more potassium than Coke). It has sugar, too, I hear. Caffeine is actually a very mild diuretic, which cannot cause fluid losses once your kidneys shift into fluid conservation mode, which happens before any significant dehydration. Caffeine has been field tested by the US Army in elite personnel on some pretty brutal exercises and they like it.

Here's an anecdotal observation: I can tell when I haven't managed my fluids and 'lytes properly after a hot ride, because not only do I get cramps and and excessive weakness in the legs, but I know it's systemic because the effort of chewing anything makes my jaw muscles feel like my quads on the last few miles!

DannoXYZ 

More high-intensity training needed. You're not doing enough sprints and 1-minute intervals. Need more time above FTP. Questions:

- How often are you hitting +30mph on flats by yourself per week?
- How often are you hitting max-HR per week?

You should really be training harder than your group-rides.