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Racing in SoCal - From Italy to USA

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Racing in SoCal - From Italy to USA

Old 11-07-15, 12:55 PM
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Racing in SoCal - From Italy to USA

Hi there,
in February/March I will move permanently from Italy to SoCal (San Diego area).
I tried to understand all the burocracy needed in order to race in USA and I found it is just straightforward: i will transfer online my UCI membership from the Italian federation to USA Cycling, easy.

But ... I tried to look at the races calendar and I saw that I will need probably to change 100% my racing habits.
In Italy I run mainly GF (lets say long and mountain races, about 80 to 120 miles, about 7000 to 12000 ft) and "uphill TT" (don't know the exact name in english).
It looks to me that in USA the GF are basically "cyclotour events", not really competitive, exactly the opposite of what happens in Italy where instead GFs are real races, just the most "important" in the non-pro world. Crits and TTs are secondary and smaller events.
Moreover I do not find any "uphill TT" in SoCal (may be this is more reasonable, due to the fact that the mountains in SoCal are not tough mountains, short and quite flat, at least with respect to the Alps)

Looking at the USACycling events, I find a huge number of crits events (too bad for my power profile), TT events, and that's it. Is it right or am I missing anything?

Should I really deeply change my training program and racing habits and forget forever GFs and "uphill TT" in order to race in SoCal?

Thanks everybody
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Old 11-07-15, 12:57 PM
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yep - if you wanna race down here, it's going to be mostly crits.
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Old 11-07-15, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
yep - if you wanna race down here, it's going to be mostly crits.
wow ... thanks for the answer, but i'm crying.
Crits are just deadly for me, it means basically stopping racing, non sense run a crit in order to be just dropped.

What about duathlon? I need to find something I am good at, in crits I am just bad, really very very bad.
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Old 11-07-15, 01:07 PM
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There are long road races and hill climb races for you to do, but you might have to do some traveling if you want to do those type of races exclusively.

Also, the USAC and bikereg event calendars usually only go out a couple of months, and this is the off-season. The calendar will be a lot fuller in a few months.
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Old 11-07-15, 03:10 PM
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It is a haul, but there are quite a few road races (some with decent climbing) up here in Northern California. I also believe that there are a FEW road races with some climbing in SoCal, but just not as many when compared to the crit scene there. The norcal calendar is starting to fill up with races and is worth a check (www.ncnca.org). Right now, the calendar just has place holders without race info, but if you check last year you can get a sense of what is what. Road races of interest up here may be (we do get quite a few so cal travelers up here):

Wente
Pescadero
University
Challenge
Copperopolis
Hamilton

There are also a few stage races that may be worth looking at if you can survive a crit. I think either San Dimas or Redlands have an actual hill climb TT.
Lastly, a bit of traveling, but check out the Cascade Stage Race up in Bend, Oregon. Ample climbing and a well run event.

Last edited by hack; 11-07-15 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 11-07-15, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mag63
wow ... thanks for the answer, but i'm crying.
Crits are just deadly for me, it means basically stopping racing, non sense run a crit in order to be just dropped.

What about duathlon? I need to find something I am good at, in crits I am just bad, really very very bad.
there is no power profile in which you cannot compete in crits, especially if you're looking for long/challenging RRs. It's a skill. Practice and get better at them.

That said, there are some hillclimbs but not many and there is a non-zero number of road races, just not every weekend down there. What that means though is the road races they do have are very contested.
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Old 11-07-15, 05:58 PM
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First of all, thanks everybody for the tips; now everything is clearer.
@Ygduf
What you say about the power profile is not really correct IMHO. I am very weak in neuromuscular efforts; on the opposite I am quite good in slow muscular fibers, aerobic resistance. I have a reasonable ftp with a good w/kg with good results on long and steady efforts and good where w/kg is important (long and steep climbs); on the contrary I am very bad on efforts with great and short spikes.
It is really a matter of structure, type I fibers vs type II fibers, you cannot change it. I am a climber, I cannot change it. And I will never have good results in crits for the same reason (as well in mtb races and cross country), because of my physiology.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:03 PM
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What he's saying is that if you want to succeed in crits, then you need to find a way off the front, ideally in a breakaway. That would suite your strengths more.

also, here are a couple resources:

SoCalCycling

scnca

While you are here, there are a small handful of road races that you may wish to compete in. Boulevard and San Dimas SR (which features a hill climb TT) too, but they may be slightly before and after your stay, respectively.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mag63
First of all, thanks everybody for the tips; now everything is clearer.
@Ygduf
What you say about the power profile is not really correct IMHO. I am very weak in neuromuscular efforts; on the opposite I am quite good in slow muscular fibers, aerobic resistance. I have a reasonable ftp with a good w/kg with good results on long and steady efforts and good where w/kg is important (long and steep climbs); on the contrary I am very bad on efforts with great and short spikes.
It is really a matter of structure, type I fibers vs type II fibers, you cannot change it. I am a climber, I cannot change it. And I will never have good results in crits for the same reason (as well in mtb races and cross country), because of my physiology.
you're talking to a guy whose peak 20-second power is like 10w/kg. I finished 2nd in crit omnium here in 35+ 123 and am competitive in the p12 crits as much as most anyone. There's more than sprinting.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mag63
First of all, thanks everybody for the tips; now everything is clearer.
@Ygduf
What you say about the power profile is not really correct IMHO. I am very weak in neuromuscular efforts; on the opposite I am quite good in slow muscular fibers, aerobic resistance. I have a reasonable ftp with a good w/kg with good results on long and steady efforts and good where w/kg is important (long and steep climbs); on the contrary I am very bad on efforts with great and short spikes.
It is really a matter of structure, type I fibers vs type II fibers, you cannot change it. I am a climber, I cannot change it. And I will never have good results in crits for the same reason (as well in mtb races and cross country), because of my physiology.
You and fudgy seem to have very similar power profiles (he'll claim to have never seen 1,000 watts). He does very well in crits by using his strengths well.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
you're talking to a guy whose peak 20-second power is like 10w/kg. I finished 2nd in crit omnium here in 35+ 123 and am competitive in the p12 crits as much as most anyone. There's more than sprinting.
Originally Posted by hack
You and fudgy seem to have very similar power profiles (he'll claim to have never seen 1,000 watts). He does very well in crits by using his strengths well.
Ok guys, thanks.

However here in Italy the reality is quite different, really.
I will definitely try to run some crits in US; but I tell you that here even if I can manage to finish in the top 10% of a GF, even better in a hill TT, i cannot really manage a crit here. I will never see 1000W in my whole life but I can keep 4.1-4.2 w/kg on a hill steady for one hour; but my profile requires to burn matches at every corner exit in a crit, i think I will never make it. But I will try ...
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Old 11-07-15, 06:44 PM
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What's your VO2 max power profile like? Can you put out a solid 5'?

You may want to attack in the final few laps.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
What's your VO2 max power profile like? Can you put out a solid 5'?

You may want to attack in the final few laps.
I am a lightweight, my absolute power is low. my 5' (analyzing the historical CP of the last 6 months) is 4.7w/kg which looks good. But it is good uphill, because it is just a miserable 310W; and on the flat it is just nothing. 310W on 66kg a 10% slope is pretty good stuff, maybe 1300 VAM, even more. 310W on the flat is just pathetic.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:54 PM
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We live on the 500m from San Diego county and while my son did not race in Italy this year - he was riding a lot in the Tuscany area this year. It is beautiful.
There are a few SoCal hilly races and hilly TTs. To do them you must drive.

TTs:
Santiago Canyon TT - Nov and April. Local not too important race
San Dimas Stage Race - Up hill TT first day 16 min type times. There will be US pros there.
Glendora Mountain - Same as above but longer. Near 1 hour.
Murrieta (San Diego) TT first stage ends uphill in dirt.

Road Races in SoCal
Santa Barbara - Sisquac - early season race - 3-4 hour drive - be prepared to have flats. In the wine country
About Feb 27 the Boulevard RR in east SD county. This is classic San Diego high desert. If you can - get here for this.
Bakersfield - April - 2-3 hour drive. Hilly and long flat section.
Something around Pear blossom/Devils Punch bowl - very hard and hot race. Slightly different courses each year and some trouble permitting
San Luis Rey - in San Diego County. Pretty good, but not what it was. Course is out and back.
There are 1-2 around Temecula. The Murrieta omnium with the TT mentioned above is kind of a RR.
NorCal is just better for road races.

Last edited by Doge; 11-07-15 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 11-07-15, 06:58 PM
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I'd add for "rides" - we/San Diego has a few challenging group rides. They are very moody and can be moderate to very fast depending on who shows up. Who has been Sagan, Cavendish and a few other Euro pros - in the off season and before Tour of California.
There are also some "Fondos" that are very challenging. Look for the Belgium Waffle ride. Also the Pedal the Cause. These fun rides have an elite 20 or so off the front that are very strong.
If you are a solo trainer - you have lots of options in San Diego - esp. hunting Strava KOMs.
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Old 11-07-15, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mag63
but my profile requires to burn matches at every corner exit in a crit, i think I will never make it. But I will try ...
I was like you, and then I sucked it up and raced a bunch of crits and learned that it is a skill which can be learned. It has remarkably little to do with your legs.

If you don't want to do them, don't do them. But if you post here and tell prospective racers that there is some power profile necessary for crits, I'm going to keep correcting you. It's demonstrably untrue.

And @hack I saw 1100! like 3 times this year. I weighed 183 this morning. Lowest this year was about 175.
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Old 11-07-15, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I was like you, and then I sucked it up and raced a bunch of crits and learned that it is a skill which can be learned. It has remarkably little to do with your legs.

If you don't want to do them, don't do them. But if you post here and tell prospective racers that there is some power profile necessary for crits, I'm going to keep correcting you. It's demonstrably untrue.

And @hack I saw 1100! like 3 times this year. I weighed 183 this morning. Lowest this year was about 175.
ok, sorry, i did not want to start any kind of "war", i was just going to ask for some information :-)

p.s. I took a look at your strava rides, after having seen your strava address in your signature. It looks we have similar w/kg, very similar; it may even be that my one is a little bit better. But my absolute wattage is quite lower than your. And in a crit it makes a huge difference. You will always be in front of me, always, in a crit. But it is a totally different story on middle to high slopes.

Last edited by mag63; 11-07-15 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 11-07-15, 07:21 PM
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@Doge, thanks
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Old 11-08-15, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf

And @hack I saw 1100! like 3 times this year. I weighed 183 this morning. Lowest this year was about 175.
are you calibrated with a lab grade weight?
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Old 11-08-15, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mag63
I am a lightweight, my absolute power is low. my 5' (analyzing the historical CP of the last 6 months) is 4.7w/kg which looks good. But it is good uphill, because it is just a miserable 310W; and on the flat it is just nothing. 310W on 66kg a 10% slope is pretty good stuff, maybe 1300 VAM, even more. 310W on the flat is just pathetic.
Umm...watts are watts. 310w on the flat is the same as 310w on a hill. I don't know why you think that people can magically do more w/kg on the flat than on a hill for a given time period (such as 5' power).
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Old 11-08-15, 07:42 PM
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You're making decisions based on ewang. If you don't like crits, that's fine, but saying that you will fail at them because of your ewang, that's just myopic.
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Old 11-08-15, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Umm...watts are watts. 310w on the flat is the same as 310w on a hill. I don't know why you think that people can magically do more w/kg on the flat than on a hill for a given time period (such as 5' power).

That's not what he's saying. He's saying he is light so his w/kg is fine but raw watts are unimpressive. Though 66 kg is not that light, and 4.7 w/kg 5 minutes is not that exciting, but we're not about the ewang here, so...

@mag63, do you know what category you would be racing in? Definitely try some crits. Maybe you will discover that everyone in the US sucks compared to Italy and you will be a stud.
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Old 11-08-15, 10:16 PM
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I forgot Chuck Pontus. District championship this year.
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Old 11-08-15, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hack
are you calibrated with a lab grade weight?
postage scale calibration and across multiple power meters that read pretty fungibly. It is what it is. See the comment above about fiber types.
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Old 11-08-15, 10:37 PM
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Was gonna post a tongue and cheek gif since my comment was more in jest than anything serious (I think you're a pretty reliable source on your own power output), but google search results for "tongue and cheek" images would have led to way more questions than answers.
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