mattm

at the crit today the official said the top 3 and bottom 3's bikes for motors. not sure if it actually happened..

Doge

As a testing strategy (for anything you need to enforce) I like that. If you always knew the top 3 - and maybe random 3 would be checked for everything it would save lots of time (and money) and get the message across.

carpediemracing 

A local area rider has a motor in a Cervelo, a black TT type bike with white or silver logo decals. Initials NB. I don't know who it is. It was installed in 2012.

Wouldn't it be a pretty quick check to walk around with a smartphone with one of those magnetic field sensing apps? Just go around randomly checking bikes, like when riders are waiting to get into position for the dash to the start line? Not sure of how that would fly in terms of rules but it certainly would introduce randomness to the checks. I understand it's limited to certain types of motors, but still, if that basic one that everyone knows about uses magnets, bam.

"We'll check about 60-80% of the bikes out there. If there's a bike within sight and we have a moment we'll check it."

Much better than "We'll check 6 bikes".

I think for triathlons it would be a no brainer, check at the transition area while everyone is swimming. Also for TTs - just check while everyone is waiting for their start.

If drug testing were that random, where an official could pull you aside, prick your finger, and be done, I think less riders would dope. I understand the finger prick test is not a reality, but the randomness of it, the lack of warning, I think it would serve to really curtail shenanigans.

Doge

In your opinion is a rider that does group rides / Strava KOMs using a motor or PEDs - cheating?

I was commenting on drugs and bikes. From "cheating" to just rule violations (gears, and a long list for UCI). I'd go as deep as the money, and or upgrade points.

carpediemracing 

My opinion? No, not cheating if group rides or Strava (as long as it's not Strava of a regulated race, USAC or similar). It's cheating only if there are rules defining it either as cheating or as not allowed, i.e. USAC and similar. I think it would be fascinating to see someone with a motor equipped bike show up at a group ride.

For Strava I don't give a hoot so for me it doesn't matter. I suppose if that was my "racing" then I'd care, but then I'd also realize that having a Strava KOM is like having an exit ramp "top speed" and that it's not really racing except for me against myself. It doesn't mean anything when compared to other people. WHen I drive I have my top speeds around certain (low risk) turns. I have video. I study the line. I practice good turn in, even when I can't go fast due to traffic or a red light. Does it mean anything to anyone? No. I went to an indoor kart thing, a bunch of actual car racing drivers were in my group, and I got my ass handed to me. I could drive at the top of a regular group of kart people, but you throw in some guys that rally, do track days, autocross, and I'm way off the back.

Just like I was (am?) really curious about how PEDs would affect me after reading "Drug Test" on Outside Magazine, I'm curious how I'd fare with a 110w boost of power (the effective output of the 200w seatpost motor unit commonly pictured in conjunction with "technical doping", and the unit installed in the bike I know about).

For me a 110w output almost doubles my average power in a typical race, where I might average 160-180w. This would give me huge flexibility in doing moves and such. I guess it's like thinking about how I'd spend a lot of money if I came into it (lottery etc). I can dream about a whatever car or house or building a nice fiscal foundation but the reality is that I end up actually doing stuff that's a bit more down to earth, like if I can order another battery for my SRM spider. If I had 110w extra I could make moves a little more freely. I could go for breaks maybe? For sure I could use others' "oh, it's him, let him go, he'll chase himself back into the field before we get back to the start/finish" typical response and actually get somewhere.

So, for now, it's thinking about how things would be a bit different if I lose some weight. That's more a reality.

TheKillerPenguin

I race to get better at strava.

Doge

If Strava added a column where you could put things like "Group Ride", "Motor pacing", "had motor", "wind aided", "using PEDS", "I wasn't even trying" that would be a nice feature.

Wylde06

Any strava KOMs that I have (which is actually pretty funny calling them KOM here) were wind aided.

carpediemracing 

+1 for me.

Now it makes me curious if I still have one in Florida, which I think is the only one I have.

*edit yay, sort of, someone tied me. https://www.strava.com/segments/6255739

I wish I had a better sprint that day, I had a poor jump and blew early. Ah well.

I do have some KOMs up in northern Maine but that's because no one rides out there. I set some segments to give me some reference points.

caloso

Me too.

Wylde06

And I may or may not have purposely ridden to those segments on those windy days knowing I could take them.

caloso

Me too.

I'm also not above creating a segment that's not likely to be ridden much, if at all.

Doge

There was an appeal that Strava remove Levi's KOMs after he was found to have used PEDs.

TheKillerPenguin

lol

mattm

Is there such a thing? I don't think phones have any magnetic-related hardware to actually make apps like that work.

The impression I got from one of the articles about motors was that it was a translation mistake that said there was an app to detect motors - it seemed like they meant something like "gadget" and not "iPad" or "app".

Duke of Kent

For Android:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...etometer&hl=en

mattm

Hmm yeah I guess it does exist.. in that case I do hope we see some level of motor-testing happen more often!

gsteinb

Bobby Lea appeal to CAS puts USA Cycling track Worlds team on hold | Cyclingnews.com

carpediemracing 

In a different forum someone installed some magnetometer app like that, then scanned stuff to see what values came up, complete with screen shots. He did something non-metal (ambient, which was like 40), then metal (binder clip?) which said like 300, then a headphone, and the headphone registered over 2000. So, yeah, if there's a standard motor in a bike, with magnets in it, it would be very simple to detect.

As pointed out later, not all electric motors have magnets. There are such motors that apparently build the charge using electricity so when they turn off it's just wiring, therefore no magnet. Still, though, there will be metal/stuff, and if it's in a carbon frame, a magnetometer app would register something. Starting to split hairs though, at that point it's more than just "App and shoot", the person with the app would have to have some training/knowledge/deductive-thinking-ability.

carpediemracing 

btw I want to install such an app and just walk around a triathlon/duathlon area waving the phone around. I wonder what I'd find. Well, okay, I'd look for any black Cervelo TT bikes because I know a motor went into one in 2012.

Imagine the disaster if the rider crashed and the frame broke and all sorts of motor/wiring guts fell out?

Jimmy Phoenix

That was a crazy read. Sounds like USA Cycling will almost have to name him as a reserve while the CAS part is still pending. How much credibility does the "sleep aid" story have? I have heard of guys taking things like Tramadol before races but not as a sleep aid. Should have had his doc write him a script for cyclobenzaprine if he needed the sleep without risking a positive.

Fingolfin

Another example of why PED testing is so expensive. On top of collection and testing cost there are a ton of legal costs, yikes!

In Lea's case I don't see how he has any hope of a successful appeal without somehow showing the test was wrong or he had an exemption for the pain killer. There was basically no point in time between 8/3 and 8/8 where he could safely assume that he would be out of competition long enough for any drug banned in competition to pass his system.

Edit: Further reading in to the case (https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uplo...01-05-2016.pdf) would indicate Lea is looking to reduce the ban length and not the ban itself

Doge

As I have posted a number of times, if they stopped looking at intent this would be so easy. If they stopped TUEs it would be easier still.
Found with the stuff - you get penalized. No court, no hearings, just you are out. Just like equipment not meeting standard - DQ. Seems UCI is moving this way.
New penalties are targeting teams so the "cheater" label only works for the few that knew.

I don't think it needs to be harsher sanctions at all. I'd favor lighter sanctions for the individual and on the team who's jersey you were wearing when you got sampled or who you are employed by and on your employer.

Wylde06

I still don't agree with the whole "no TUE's" thing, if only for personal reasons.

wens

I believe part of the issue that's being run into is that nobody specified minimum detection levels for substances, which is going to become more of a problem as technology advances and smaller quantities can be detected.

This is a general comment, not on any specific case.