miyata man

Hey, inability to make the leap from unsophisticated and easily caught to "I did it and I'd do it again all over just the same" that has been echoed again and again is not a lapse on the part of the writer.

rubiksoval

It's how your word all of your bizarrely written posts. Your style of writing is incomprehensible most of the time.

It reads as if YOU are the one saying that, not some random drug user.

Ygduf

now we're dissing uci masters' world championships because some of the qualifying races use the word "fondo"?

Heathpack 

Lol @Ygduf gets it.

Hilarious to me how some guys who love crits and road races can't grasp that there's significant $ to be made by taking people's money. Money that can be used to support your thing. Or the next generation of cyclists. Or the US National Team.

Instead it makes more sense to hand-wring over what is "real" racing (with "real" racing being the type of racing the handwringer does of course) and beat your chest as to how much better your kind of real racing is over the kind where someone as they come up the ranks gets a participation trophy before they decide to try to win. Or maybe they never decide to try to win (like most crit racers).

Pushing these people with $ out of your sport is smart??

Um. Ok.

Doge

I'm sure to tell the folks providing me a beer here in Louisville - that it is because of the bike race.

aaronmcd

Who says most crit racers arent trying to win?

Ygduf

how many dudes were in the world's RR where Thor or Sagan won their stripes?

Or are you saying 3400 is too big? Boston Marathon only has like 30,000 runners and seems like a big deal in the marathon race world.

rubiksoval

I don't know,200 or so actual professional and qualified bike racers?

I'm saying that there are not 3400 bike racers in that gran fondo because it's not a bike race.

Just like there are not 30,000 racers (what do you call actual racing runners?) in the Boston Marathon, though there are probably significantly more running racers there than most other marathons since you have to run a qualifying time. Charity people skew the numbers.

Anyway, it's a participation event with a race happening at the front, a race 95+ % of the participants are not involved in. You "pay to be a pro for a day" as the website advertises.

rubiksoval

It brings it down a notch in my opinion.

It denotes a participation event rather than a legitimate bike race.

I mean, to "qualify" for the "world championship" you have to place...what, top 30 in your age group? It's kind of ridiculous.

Compare that to say, taking the top 3 from master's nationals, or winner of master's nats and top 3 nationally ranked; something that actually means something as a bike racer.

rubiksoval

I'm always baffled at the strawmen and leaps of logic you come up with in some of your posts.

Where does that last question even come from? Who's talking about pushing anyone out of anything?

miyata man

By siphoning away what small amount of credibility it is subsisting on into who's pockets? Sister, if you think that fondo cash is going into building a better tomorrow your train already left the station.


Again since it has zero direct or immediate impact that you can conceive coming back on you, SELL SELL SELL. Let's throw a couple thousand new people onto your TT courses and see how much handwringing and crying about dissolution of the purest form of racing, a race against the clock, suddenly enter your mindset. Sounds like your own personal Fiesta Island dream, right. A party with 4000 of your closest new friends all enjoying something on the same level at the same time. What could possibly bother a "real" TT racer like you about that?

But this is just philosophizing about outcomes others could face. So what's the harm, right? Dig the spurs in and run someone else's pony until it drops dead. Then go back to brushing out and braiding the mane on yours like nothing happened.

Heathpack 

You want to define a fondo as "not a race".


Many others see a timed event with a winner as "indeed a race".


When you have a large event like a fondo, the contenders are going to be racing well ahead of the unwashed masses. Their race is unaffected by what the masses are doing.


USAC could accomplish a number of things by adding fondos to their roster of events, two of the most important being bringing in needed cash and increasing exposure to the sport of bike racing.


If bike racers involved in traditional bike racing believe that they are "true" racers and that the efforts of participants of a fondo are not even worthy of being described as racing, guess what? Those people may well move on to another sport. Reasonably so, IMO.


It just completely escapes me why so many traditional bike racers want to create this chasm between themselves and the people who, if things were done right, could actually be funding their sport for them.

Heathpack 

Lol, I would be 100% fine with 4000 people racing at Fiesta or any TT that I race. It would actually bring a lot of money into the sport and, if managed properly, that money could allow for a lot of positive things to happen. I in no way see bike racing as something that should be exclusive or exclusionary, and more people participating would in no way tarnish my event for me.


Do I believe that the current USAC organization would be capable of managing that money properly? No. But that's a different subject.


I'm not trying to hurt your pony, don't worry. I would never do that. I'm a veterinarian.


<Fiesta BTW is a bad example, its not USAC-sanctioned. But I get your point.>

TheKillerPenguin

Derp. My b for skimming

TheKillerPenguin

There are some things I'm an elitest ******bag about and this is one of em!

aaronmcd

Does a ride need to have usac approval to be called a race? Or does it need to have categories?

Idk, back when I was a kid we had a one acre lot and all the friends would line up at one end and run as fast as we could until the winner smashed into the chain link fence on the other end. Pretty sure that was a race. (damn Kyle would almost always win but I could run til he collapsed in any game of tag!)

miyata man

Nah, I took some liberties with how deeply into the conversation aspects of it could be picked up for momentary reexamination. It's like stabbing a puddle trying to accurately point out the overly dissected parts that comprise doping anymore. Just causes a ripple effect in conversation and distorted view for anyone not fully attentive at this late point.

Ygduf

I can't tell if you're really dim or leading me on.

Ygduf

age?

cycling is a lifetime sport. there's not a lot of decline between 20 and 45. maybe at UCI pro levels sure, but none of those in here.

miyata man

The linguistic misstep you're referencing doesn't completely countermand the solidity of the argument underlying it. Kids on sandlots pretend to be WC's or some other publicly respected athlete. Adults on sandlots are still pretending to be WC's or some other variety of professional athlete they idolize. Taking credibility from those who have attained the highest order among the highest class of peers so some jerk off can take an honorary victory lap is bad for the sport at any level. 5 out of 6 former GFNY winners agree.The sixth will fall into line more likely than not.

mattm

+1

rubiksoval

I assure you I'm quite brilliant.

rubiksoval

The sprint at the end of our group ride is "indeed a race", but it, too, is not a bike race. And the people participating in it may or may not be actual bike racers. That has nothing to do with whether or not they should be doing the ride. It has everything to do with defining what an actual bike race and racer is.

There's no chasm, there are definitions. There are words and what those words actually mean. There's no need to perpetuate some delusion to make sure no one's feelings are hurt. I'm not a Nascar driver because I go to a track day. And no one in their right mind would suggest me thinking I am is actually okay.

rubiksoval

I don't know where this idea is even coming from, or what it has to do with anything.

The billionaire down the road could be funding the sport as well, but I'm not going to start addressing him as Mr. Bike Racer just because he came on a group ride so that he'd actually do it.

rubiksoval