TheKillerPenguin

Maybe different in the masters ranks? I really don't see anything that makes me go WTF in the elites here. There are a few guys that are head and shoulders above most of us but the progression to their current levels makes sense.

Racer Ex 

Wouldn't doubt that the percentage might be higher in the Master's ranks, or in pure numbers given that we make up the bulk of licenses. And we have money.

But my list includes a fair number of "elite" folks and they've popped enough "elite" riders in the last few years to make me think that it's more a case of hiding in plain sight. People aren't going to jump to the assumption right away when some kid (oldguyspeak: anyone under 30) rides OTF of a 1/2 field. The really talented clean folks look pretty much like the pretty talented dopers and the level of play is high enough where things look less obvious.

Wouldn't mind if your belief is true.

revchuck 

topflightpro

I'm going to have to agree with Ex. I think it's a lot more widespread in the Elite and Masters ranks than many want to admit.

mattm

In elite racing, I agree.

Try masters racing though.. I mean just take a side-by-side look at a p1/2 race and a 35+ 1/2/3's race.

Check the diameter of the biceps between the two. How is it that aging guys all have huge biceps compared to "elite" racers?? Maybe they work out more, or maybe... who knows. That's what I notice though.

It's far from proof - that's what testing is for. But the rate of (amateur) guys getting popped seems way higher in masters racing than elite racing.

Ttoc6

That article is only 3 months younger than me.

In Seattle there is a convicted doper on the track. Still races regularly. Seems the area has forgiven him for his sins. There was a number of article written about him in velonews as a result of the ban and him trying to race in the unsanctioned weekly series that is hosted there. I came to know him before I knew he was a doper. It seems the conversations around him are in regards to how good he is at racing and then a bit of suspicion. It's not really about what he did anymore, but more about "is he really clean?"

I think Masters track is all too dirty. I'm not sure why, being a young guy with a conscious and all. We all aspire to be better, but I wouldn't be able to sleep if I knew I hadn't earned it. I get nervous taking medicine or my inhaler for allergies / sinuses / illness induced asthma sometimes that are on the list but only cause trouble if they are above a certain amount. I just don't like thinking I haven't earned it. Even if using an inhaler makes me ride great when sick.

hack

Speaking of Seattle masters track guys ... just saw this on usada:

https://www.usada.org/aaa-panel-impo...ony-blazejack/

Might be old news since the test was almost a year ago, but sanctions not announced until yesterday?

globecanvas

doper.

tetonrider

i'm still of the opinion that most amateurs are not doing what is portrayed in that film--even the 'serious club rider.'

i guess i figured that people were taking pills or applying creams, but the injections (to me) seem like crossing a line... kinda like the difference between a bump of coke v injecting heroin.

anyway... i find it pointless to worry about w/r/t amateur racing. the fascinating part of this film (for me) was the whole snowden-of-russian-doping aspect. some of those revelations about how they figured out how to cleanly remove tamper-proof lids and the execution of the swaps was pretty wild.

it would be easy to demonize the main character, but he also risked his life to tell the story.

tetonrider

yeah, but i think the people prone to doping at an amateur level are wired VERY different from you (+ me + all the other non-dopers). i don't think they have the same feelings of remorse, or they don't suffer from whatever imposter-like feelings.

i think to a degree anyone who races a bike probably has a certain ability to delude themselves in some ways (otherwise how the hell can you justify the training or lining up again and again with little or no chance of winning), but dopers may be much better at finding a way that lets them think they still deserve the wins/accolades in spite of the PEDs.

hard to imagine that frame of mind.

tetonrider

IME this is especially true in the crit scene in cali (SoCal in particular).

one mitigating factor: when one is younger (say 23), they probably have done fewer sports up to that point their life. if you take that 40-year old athlete, while they may only be racing a bike for 5 years they often have a history in other sports that might include rowing, nordic skiing, triathlon, or something else that adds some upper body bulk.

i dunno...just thinking aloud there.

globecanvas

There's a lot going on with your analogy there.


To me, it's more like the difference between a little light murder, and the really premeditated kind.

Hermes

I think anyone who climbs OLH in under 17 minutes and has tan legs is suspect.

TheKillerPenguin

Ttoc6

I actually never met Tony in person. He may have been at a few of the same races as me, but I can't recall having any interactions with him. He isn't the one I was talking about in my previous post though. That would be a fella that goes by the name of Kenny. I'll leave the rest to be looked up.

Ttoc6

Okay, one of my Seattle teammates pointed this out to me. Make sure to read the whole case for this one. It's a bit... different.



In summary, not sure he cheated, could be tainted meat, but not enough proof. Guilty until proven innocent is the way USADA plays apparently. 4 years seems... harsh for someone on their first offense that they don't think intentionally cheated.

mattm

Oh wow, I used to race that guy!

mattm

I didn't read the whole thing, just the snippet you posted.

But if it was "accidental" contamination from a food truck, or any meat from somewhere, it seems like that kind of thing would be happening all the time.

Tony was a nice guy, I'm sure he still is. But I don't buy the "blame it on the taco truck" thing, at all.

I also never thought of him as a "cheater," but you never know. Even cheaters can smile.

mattm

Kenny Williams - I remember the dust-up when he started racing Seward after being banned!

I also remember him destroying the local crit scene before he was busted.

It's sad because now when anyone stands out like that I think "hmmmm," not "damn that guy is good."

mattm

I'm pretty sure @Ygduf has been tan-doping for quite some time!

Ygduf

Racists. I'm Welch and we tan awesomely.

revchuck 

Does that mean you mooch off people?

Or "Welsh"?

I'm sure I've done much worse on misspellings.

TheKillerPenguin

I think he means he's juicing, or literally grape juice.

miyata man

Baby food is a hell of a drug

Ygduf

Welsh, yes. Dictation harms me again. But these replies are good.