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Old 09-12-17, 09:27 PM   #1801
tetonrider
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USADA has a link to a suspicious/dangerous supplements page.

I take ON Casein Protein by the bucket, ON creatine, Bulksupplements beta alanine, and Beet It sport beetroot shots.

When sick I have ZMA and echinacea.
any particular reason for casein?

casein (yogurt) is good for me near bedtime, but otherwise i like whey.

have you ever tried to get any *certified* clean supplements? i'd like to but have been unsuccessful.
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Old 09-12-17, 09:43 PM   #1802
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any particular reason for casein?

casein (yogurt) is good for me near bedtime, but otherwise i like whey.

have you ever tried to get any *certified* clean supplements? i'd like to but have been unsuccessful.
I like casein for the consistency of the mix and flavor. At home I shake it over ice, at work where I have cold cold water I have ON whey and it's labeled as "banned substance tested." That's the closest I've gotten.

here's the "high risk supplement" list. after the cyclobenzaprine thing, I checked all the stuff I take against this and none is listed, which just means it hasn't been an issue _yet_. https://www.usada.org/substances/supplement-411/
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Old 09-13-17, 05:12 AM   #1803
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only the outlaws will...
The only thing that will stop a bad guy on PEDs is a good guy on PEDs?
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Old 09-13-17, 07:42 AM   #1804
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The Whey powder I buy at Costco notes on the bag: "No banned substances."
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Old 09-13-17, 07:51 AM   #1805
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The only thing that will stop a bad guy on PEDs is a good guy on PEDs?
One was a rule breaker, the other wasn't. The rule keeper had a disadvantage keeping the rule.
Eliminate the rule and now both are on the same playing field.

My response was to those PEDs that barely matter and/or are not enforced, often one of the things said about some PEDs. Then just take them off the list for the non-pros.

Sure USAC racing will become more like Fondos. But few seem to want a the real cost of enforcing everything. There are piles of rules that are being broken all the time and not enforced. PEDs are just one of them.

Edit Add: Things are banned for different reasons. They may be safe, and considered an advantage, but too costly, out of reach of the normal competitor. Also they may be banned for one sport and not another, or one country and not another.
Just take those off the list.

Last edited by Doge; 09-13-17 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 09-13-17, 11:03 AM   #1806
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One was a rule breaker, the other wasn't. The rule keeper had a disadvantage keeping the rule.
Eliminate the rule and now both are on the same playing field.

My response was to those PEDs that barely matter and/or are not enforced, often one of the things said about some PEDs. Then just take them off the list for the non-pros.

Sure USAC racing will become more like Fondos. But few seem to want a the real cost of enforcing everything. There are piles of rules that are being broken all the time and not enforced. PEDs are just one of them.

Edit Add: Things are banned for different reasons. They may be safe, and considered an advantage, but too costly, out of reach of the normal competitor. Also they may be banned for one sport and not another, or one country and not another.
Just take those off the list.
You're missing the point.

GC is referring to Icarus, the documentary in which a guy goes on an intense doping regimen to try to win Haute Route. And he does so with help from the Russian lab director who oversaw Russia's massive doping scheme.
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Old 09-13-17, 11:17 AM   #1807
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You're missing the point.

GC is referring to Icarus, the documentary in which a guy goes on an intense doping regimen to try to win Haute Route. And he does so with help from the Russian lab director who oversaw Russia's massive doping scheme.
I did miss that point.
Haute Route is a very serious Fondo right?

I think Gaimon is doing that - tongue in cheek going after KOM "cheaters" with his own non-legal bike.
One is a PED, the other a mechanical thing, neither matter any more than Haute, or do they somehow?

Last edited by Doge; 09-13-17 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 09-13-17, 11:32 AM   #1808
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I did miss that point.
Haute Route is a very serious Fondo right?

I think Gaimon is doing that - tongue in cheek going after KOM "cheaters" with his own non-legal bike.
One is a PED, the other a mechanical thing, neither matter any more than Haute, or do they somehow?
There are legal bikes for Strava?
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Old 09-13-17, 11:32 AM   #1809
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There are legal bikes for Strava?
Same category as doping.

Silly to go after legal dopers with a legal bike. Like complaining about dopers in Fondos.

Last edited by Doge; 09-13-17 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 09-13-17, 11:45 AM   #1810
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it ****ing kills me that you guys can't get over the word "fondo" to understand that they are races in other countries. It's gotta blow your minds when you travel and see "football" referenced and they're talking about soccer.
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Old 09-13-17, 01:09 PM   #1811
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Having now done some fondos in the US, those are races too. Albeit casual ones.

The first bike race happened when two guys got together to ride and saw a hill in the distance.
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Old 09-13-17, 01:39 PM   #1812
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Same category as doping.

Silly to go after legal dopers with a legal bike. Like complaining about dopers in Fondos.
What makes a bike legal/illegal for Strava KOMs?
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Old 09-13-17, 01:49 PM   #1813
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What makes a bike legal/illegal for Strava KOMs?
No Gas/gas.

If those around you are all doing pretty much the same thing, and no one flags a ride - the social media app Strava is fine with it.
I personally would like more filters for self reporting: Solo/Paced/UCI bike/doped

Last edited by Doge; 09-13-17 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 09-13-17, 02:00 PM   #1814
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it ****ing kills me that you guys can't get over the word "fondo" to understand that they are races in other countries. It's gotta blow your minds when you travel and see "football" referenced and they're talking about soccer.
Just done for those I assumed were reading the post. Just like tyres and tires. I grew up over there.

Whatever term you want, some events require agreements to follow certain rules and some don't.

It is the breaking of the agreement I see the issue with. If someone is taking a PED and in an event that allows it, it is just another thing.

In USAC road racing riders sign waivers/agreements every race saying what they will hold USAC liable for and how they will behave.
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Old 09-13-17, 02:04 PM   #1815
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We have a Cat 1 out here that pacelines behind a moped and has snagged a bunch of KOMs. I doubt he cares about them, but I some do get annoyed. It would be nice if you unKOM your ride....maybe you can (I don't have enough KOMs to know KOM settings!)
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Old 09-13-17, 02:48 PM   #1816
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Just done for those I assumed were reading the post. Just like tyres and tires. I grew up over there.

Whatever term you want, some events require agreements to follow certain rules and some don't.

It is the breaking of the agreement I see the issue with. If someone is taking a PED and in an event that allows it, it is just another thing.

In USAC road racing riders sign waivers/agreements every race saying what they will hold USAC liable for and how they will behave.
the guy in icarus was doping for an event for which doping was banned. gaimon is using a non-uci legal bike for a website that doesn't require you to follow UCI rules. how are those the same thing?
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Old 09-13-17, 03:05 PM   #1817
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the guy in icarus was doping for an event for which doping was banned. gaimon is using a non-uci legal bike for a website that doesn't require you to follow UCI rules. how are those the same thing?
I was equating Giamon going after Strava dopers on a not legal for any race bike as being tongue-in-cheek.
He knows on Strava both his not legal in any race bike and doping are allowed.



Edit Found them: https://www.hauteroute.org/downloads..._FINAL_MAY.pdf

Why not use WADA/USADA rather than the French Articles L.230-1 for doping?

I'd also say there is an agreement not to dope:
Article 29: ACCEPTANCE OF THE REGULATIONS
By entering the Haute Route 2016, each participant acknowledges having read and accepted these regulations explicitly and without reservation. In case of any disagreement in the interpretation of these regulations, the French version shall prevail.

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Old 09-13-17, 06:36 PM   #1818
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We have a Cat 1 out here that pacelines behind a moped and has snagged a bunch of KOMs. I doubt he cares about them, but I some do get annoyed. It would be nice if you unKOM your ride....maybe you can (I don't have enough KOMs to know KOM settings!)
Easily accessible setting to not show this ride on leader boards. Poof!
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Old 09-13-17, 06:43 PM   #1819
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I was equating Giamon going after Strava dopers on a not legal for any race bike as being tongue-in-cheek.
He knows on Strava both his not legal in any race bike and doping are allowed.
actually, that bike is legal in some races...hill climbs for instance. He used it at Mt. Washington.

You need to massage your use of language a bit I think. Doping isn't "allowed." We can start off with it actually being illegal. Gaimon isn't chasing the KOMs of guys who tested positive for a diet aid.
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Old 09-13-17, 06:45 PM   #1820
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Easily accessible setting to not show this ride on leader boards. Poof!
Why would anyone care this much about KOMs?
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Old 09-13-17, 06:51 PM   #1821
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I can only theorize it could be for people who don't want to show near the bottom of leader boards.

Certainly racers who don't want to hide data from teammates but don't want hammerfests giving away their training data. Pretty easy to work around hidden but not private accounts by chasing their rides down on leaderboards and clicking through.
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Old 09-13-17, 07:35 PM   #1822
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actually, that bike is legal in some races...hill climbs for instance. He used it at Mt. Washington.

You need to massage your use of language a bit I think. Doping isn't "allowed." We can start off with it actually being illegal. Gaimon isn't chasing the KOMs of guys who tested positive for a diet aid.
I guess I mistakenly thought all USA races were under USAC or UCI rules. I'll want to look those rules up. I think the hill climbs are a fun family event.
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Old 09-13-17, 08:49 PM   #1823
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Why would anyone care this much about KOMs?
hundreds of thousands of efforts, permanence long outlasting a race result, etc...
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Old 09-14-17, 10:49 PM   #1824
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Why would anyone care this much about KOMs?
For me as a dad and fan it allows me to track and get a feel of how things are going. I enjoy following pros and ex-teammates (really old guys I "raced" although for them it is mostly Facebook) and junior's competitors and teammates.

I can see if he's actually riding the stuff I buy. In off season and with school duties races are not as reflective of fitness, where Strava can be. Junior may have a parade, wilderness thing or some squadron sleepless bonding before a race. So while his school could care less about his races, Strava lets him and everyone else go-for-it when they feel like it. Independent study. And the significant segments should come without excuses because they are the best of many tries.

I really like the head to head races better, I just am going to have to wait a while before the best preparations is there. So I'll take Strava.
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Old 09-14-17, 11:07 PM   #1825
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permanence long outlasting a race result
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