dz_nuzz

My experience was probably a little different than most as my first team was one that I started / re-started on my own. Coming into the sport I didn't really know anyone, my collegiate team was not active at all when I was there and I sort of realized I wanted to race my bike right after I left college.

The bike shop I had grown up going to as a kid had a long history of having a bike team but it had sort of gone defunct for several years. With the shop's help I sort of restarted it. Building it up from other riders while I was still a 5. It was, and still is, a process of trial and error. Getting sponsors, making team members happy, managing the shop relationship, etc. but it really is something I love and have enjoyed seeing the team really become something.

The thing that makes this a little more interesting is the fact that I switched teams while still managing / being part of my original team.

I moved up through the ranks faster than a lot of the other guys on my team and I found myself knocking at the Cat 2 door while most of my teammates were still Cat 4s. Because of this I decided to switch to another local team for racing reasons where I raced to a decent amount of success for 2 years. Eventually though I butted heads a bit with the upper management of that team and my original team had grown and matured alot both in racing experience and it's infrastructure. I decided to move back to my original team and start to build a Cat 1/2 team and that is where I am now.

As for some of the original questions: I feel that every team member should speak out about their A races, and everyone does. We say we are targetting a race and we expect to be supported. We are a smaller team (15 guys split across a few categories) so in general there isn't that much butting of heads.

I like being part of a team more for the fun off-the-bike banter than anything. Having teammates in a race or to carpool with is alot of fun aswell. Honestly I have only had a few experiences where team tactics worked, I wish there were more but I just don't see it that often.

To me the team is more about a bunch of friends who share a common hobby banding together to make racing easier/ more affordable/ more fun.

Doge

Yea, I was wondering if there is a magic trick to making this happen in amateur teams.

Ygduf

in a small field of like 10 we had 3 guys at the district crit last year. @mattm, I, and our teammate worked the field over and went 1-3-4 and would have gone 1-2-3 if Matt had just listened to me.

There are no race radios in amateur racing so it's just about covering moves, making threats work more than they want, and minimizing your weaknesses and exploiting your strengths when you're able. There is some gambling because you don't know what's happening out of sight but otherwise you just have to be willing to lose if your teammate gets into an advantageous position.

caloso

Yelling mostly.

jdms mvp

imho tactics are a product of practicing a routine and respect for each other's abilities. I've seen more times than not, strong teams, with too many chefs in the kitchen. It's good to have a team captain and racers who will listen to what they are saying.

hack

It also helps having teammates willing to finish dead last (or not at all) to get a result for another rider. We'd rather see a guy on the podium and a couple guys DNP'ed than finish 11, 12, and 13. Now, getting the selected guy into a spot to win is easier in thought than practice since a lot of it is good timing, having guys in the right spots, and having the legs to do execute.

dz_nuzz

The one time I really experienced some beautiful team tactics was at GMSR the first year I was on the other team. We were the largest team there by a factor of 2, I think we had 7 guys vs. all of the other teams that maxed out at 3 or 4. It basically just became a game of team tactics forcing people to let us sit-on in breaks or just sitting at the front of the field to prevent strong chases from forming. That **** worked bautifully, but it was in part because we had a bunch of smart, strong guys who knew how to use overwhelming numbers correctly.


It happens every now and then, my old team knew how to play the tactics game, there is no question about that. But there is also an element of needing to have people who are all evenly matched firepower wise otherwise if you have half your guys off the back there is very little you can do (Unless you brought 10 guys to the race). At the professional level here is both quantity and quality, the same can't always be said for amateur teams.

TexMac

That women team is prob too slow for ya

mattm

@Ygduf it was 1-2-4 if I'd listened to you, so I'm still right!

Ygduf

I could have popped Claudio off, taken him all the way back to the back, then still gotten clear and made everyone chase so you could win the field sprint for 3rd! I know it in my heart to be true!

hack

I'd have thought Brian would upset your podium sweep way before Claudio would. Unless you guys were off in a TT-esque break.

Psimet2001 

I have managed, started, maintained, refereed, clubs/teams for a while now. What's more I have worked with all sorts of teams from a sponsorship perspective...hands on sponsorship.

It works however you guys decide it works. There are more styles out there than anyone of us can cover. If your question is more how the good ones work....best and most effective teams I have been a part of were made up of extremely experienced masters and worked according to a pretty easy set of rules to understand:

1. Where's the money? up the road? chase. Your rider up the road? Sit/block. Rider bridges - jump on. If there's no money left where you are then get to where the money is.
2. Pool the payouts and divide evenly based on who opts in or opts out. If you raced like an idiot then you better opt out. Once you've confessed your sins in front of the group by opting out everyone give you a noogie and still cuts you in while saying wildly reassuring things like, "it happens but don't ever let it happen again or I'll kill you"

Why are people on teams? All sorts of reasons. Most of them are stupid or not really benefits of being on a team. Why SHOULD people be on teams? Support. Period. Transport to races, race fees if you're lucky. Free or discounted kit. Mechanical help before racing and at venue. Forgot your helmet? shoes? pedals just broke? no food? water? Need someone to stand in the feedzone? Forgot a trainer? Need some shade? Need a new bike - we have a discount/sponsorship. Wheels? Don't know how to glue tubulars? etc.

People that join teams so that they can train with people kind of drive me nuts. I have always felt that training is something that individuals do. Racing is what a team does. There are too many teams that start as clubs and are actually just a bunch of people that have 2 things in common: a love of bikes and a geographic proximity to each other or a bike shop. Real teams are made up of racers. Racers race. They usually don't care how close people live to each other - just whether or not they are planning to be at all of the races (racers race they don't do group rides on the weekends).

Sacrificing...really? That's a pretty romantic vision of what this sport is. Contrary to popular belief everyone wants to be a domestique. In reality it just doesn't work that way up front. It's about what happens IN the race. You race as a team - don't chase your teammate down, get each other in the right place when you need to be there, block, bridge, etc. If youre in the position to do the work then you do the work. If you're in the position to "sacrifice" then that's what you're doing I guess but that's not anyone's "role". People get called domestiques over time because they end up being really good at reading races and doing work but can't close the deal often enough to be considered lead singers.

The race will be how the race is. Very few teams ever have enough to dictate how a race will go. When there is one that can then very few teams can counter it regardless of what they do. The best teams I have been a part of have a quick meeting before hand. They know what the course is like, who all the players are and what is most likely going to happen based on weather, conditions, etc. Very seldom is there any actual HARD assignments unless it's an "enforcer" style of rule (Andy! You stay on Jones. If he moves you move. If you see anyone go then try and keep him back). Usually it's concept planning.

Look for an attack here on at this time. If it has team or rider x y or z then get in it or get out of it. If it doesn't have us then I expect to see some chasing...etc In amateur teams this is usually just the most senior rider, most experienced, team captain of sorts, or even team owner. In domestic pro teams this is the DS. DS is boss. Makes all the calls. In amateur teams - who cares. it's a hobby.

Which races teams go to...depending on the nature of the team there is usually a process. I have seen everything from schedule dictation to meeting where members put races in a hat and pull them out to "no schedule" or week by week race day decision.

Within my own organization I have a club full of racers, a top performing women's racing team, a men's 3 masters contingent, etc. I have had "Elite" men's programs, etc.. Each one is different. I keep them all on the same page by simply being there with the tents, tools, support, deals, in depth knowledge and immense local and regional race connections. I teach them all what I can and I step in to settle disputes but my general hands off approach allows my final word to carry weight when it's needed. I have seen teams do well. I have seen them languish. Personal politics almost always kills teams. Personally I won't stand for anyone arguing about a race move more than a day after a race.

"you should have chased-" "STFU! Pin your number on and pay attention to the time."

cyclinganomaly

Back when I decided to try my first race, I got dropped right away. Afterwards I had one of the race organizers come up to me and he told me to find a team to join, that they would help me train and learn what I needed to know to do well. I asked around for an entire year, and I couldn't find a team that did that. A year later, I went back and asked the same guy what teams do that, and he couldn't answer that question. As it turns out, no one does that here.

Not long after that I was talking to someone at work who used to race, and he put me in contact with the team that I am on now, he said they would help me, and I joined mid-season. The first race I went to with them I brought it up right away, I want to learn and get better at racing, they need to tell me what I am doing wrong, and they need to tell me what to do to get better. I was told not to worry about it, they would never give me a hard time about not getting good results.

What I have learned about them since them is that it's basically 2 separate teams that have the same name. There is an elite squad of cat. 1/2 racers. They do their own thing, they have a mentorship program for U-23 racers, it's rare to see any of them at the local races, they travel and do the big races in the Midwest. They don't attend team functions, they don't associate with the rest of the team at all. Then there is the rest of us. For the most part the rest is Masters cat. 3/4 racers. There is no organization, sometimes a lot of guys show up, sometimes hardly any. It's pretty much a free-for-all. One of the Masters cat. 3 guys is trying to organize the Masters 3/4 guys this year, I wish him luck, but it's unlikely that he will be successful.

I wish I could find a team that was organized and more serious. I haven't sent in my 2016 membership form yet, but for lack of a better option, I'm guessing that I will stick with the same team. The guy who is trying to organize the Masters 3/4 has been helping me set up a training plan, so that is something. Also I have over $800 invested in team kits and team clothing. Trying to get in with the elite squad is probably my best chance of ever getting on the kind of team that I want to be on. It's probably a forlorn hope though, being a cat.4 who gets dropped over half the time is a long ways from category 2.

canuckbelle

Save the money from not buying team kits and hire a coach.

gsteinb

or analyze your goals and if they include friendships and mentorship find a team that fits that dynamic

mike868y

joining a local team made the last season much more enjoyable for me.

(not that there was anything wrong with my old team, but being on a team based hours away isn't really conducive to much camaraderie)

Wylde06

I was on a team last year based 3 hours south of me. While it was nice to have some of the benefits (mostly race reimbursement), with the exception of my one training partner/team mate, I never raced with anyone on the team and never had any interaction with the team outside of 2 different race weekends.

This year will be a lot more fun from a team standpoint..we started a team back up locally and have close to 30 guys signed up to race.

topflightpro

Hardly anyone on my "team" still races. That is fine with me. I've gotten used to racing solo. Plus, I know pretty much everyone who shows up to our local races anyway.

As for my team, we get together regularly to ride and/or get beers. In fact, I'm care more about the beer than the riding.

EventServices

But which kind of "coach"? The guy who tells you how to improve your power numbers? Or the guy who tells you how to race?

tetonrider

are they mutually exclusive?

cyclinganomaly

The coaches that I know of just work on the fitness part. I talked to a coach last year and I simply couldn't afford it, he wanted $550 a month! Anyways, it seems silly spending that kind of money as a cat. 4 racer.

I don't know who teaches anyone to race, at least not around here. I have been asking around for nearly 2 years for someone to help me to learn to race, or a mentor. I'm not finding anything. Usually I get told to join a team, or get told not to bother trying, I'm could punch those guys!

EventServices

I don't know if 'mutually exclusive' is the right term, but I know of no coaches who teach tactics or techniques. And I don't know of any who teach drills.

I know of a lot of coaches who have never even laid eyes on their clients. Everything is done over the phone or internet. So you know they're not talking about strategies.

And if you sign up for a cycling camp, it's mainly just a lot of miles and a lot of sitting around analyzing Garmin data.

TheKillerPenguin

Mine does both. I guess I work with a unicorn?

mattm

Self-coach is the best.

Free, and they can do both..

tetonrider

i would think that someone with as much experience in the sport as you would at least know a few. i agree it is dying, but i know a bunch who do this. a coach who doesn't address tactics with a client? i think that is weird.

i don't know how you value the hours in your day, but when i do something myself it doesn't make it 'free.'

self-coaching is perfectly fine, of course, but things as simple as creating a plan, thinking about what work to do today, looking at a ride file -- let's just call it 10' a day on the extremely low side -- add up to 5h/week, or more when you layer in stuff a good coach tends to do. lots of coaches out there make less than minimum wage on their clients based on the time they devote.

now, there are some coaches charging $550 as pointed out above, and probably some that don't really add any value, but the former is pretty insane to me and the latter, well, really has nothing to do with an effective coach, so it probably should be lumped in with people who suck at self-coaching. that's many people, but not all.

turns out an outside perspective is worth something to some people. go figure.