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Old 06-06-16, 09:51 PM   #1
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Dr. Paul Dimeo off USA Cycling Anti-Dope

He gives his opinion, different than the opinion of the USAC.
He is fired.
Your Thoughts? https://www.usacycling.org/usac-anno...-committee.htm
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Old 06-06-16, 10:07 PM   #2
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Independent thinking?
Can't have that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M
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Old 06-07-16, 12:13 PM   #3
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Well if the committee's whole reason for being is to end doping, and the guy said "doping should be allowed", then it seems like he's on the wrong committee.

At least that's what I gained from skimming that press release.
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Old 06-07-16, 09:30 PM   #4
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Well if the committee's whole reason for being is to end doping, and the guy said "doping should be allowed", then it seems like he's on the wrong committee.

At least that's what I gained from skimming that press release.
It's only doping if it is not allowed. Allow it and you have eliminated one area of doping.
I'm good with whatever the rules are, but when you make rules that you can't enforce, the honest riders are penalized. I think that was his point.
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Old 06-07-16, 09:48 PM   #5
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It's only doping if it is not allowed. Allow it and you have eliminated one area of doping.
I'm good with whatever the rules are, but when you make rules that you can't enforce, the honest riders are penalized. I think that was his point.
So ... was he suggesting doping should be allowed because they are struggling to enforce it or because he doesn't think its wrong?

At the end of the day, people are going to cheat and break any rule that you make in an effort to gain advantage. The options are to eliminate all the rules or establish a set and TRY to enforce them. I think where they've drawn the line with PEDs is fair and should apply to professional and amateur folk.
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Old 06-07-16, 10:11 PM   #6
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I read somewhere that he said EPO could be used safely to help aid recovery.

He also said something quite idiotic about blood transfusions not being a big deal because they're done all the time in hospitals. But he doesn't work in a hospital and doesn't know that physicians use transfusions as a last resort. There are soooo many regulations and rules governing blood banks all because when mistakes are made people usually die.
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Old 06-07-16, 10:25 PM   #7
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He did state the enforcement issue. So I thought it was because they couldn't enforce it. Which, of course penalizes those that obey the rules others get the benefit from breaking them.

But the rule breaking is what makes it wrong, or not, for most things. If it isn't a rule, then I don't see the ethical issue around doing/not doing it in much of the doping areas.
Using your own blood is wrong? I have not seen any point associating sport rules with morals anyway as there are too many cultures, and characters to deal with. It doesn't work. I think soccer view/laws are way ahead here. Just a list of consequences for what happened. Cycling needs to go that way. This intent / right / wrong thing is not working.
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Old 06-08-16, 12:14 PM   #8
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Cycling needs to go that way. This intent / right / wrong thing is not working.
i'm reminded of this.


cyclists are still taking drugs /
lust keeps on lurking /
nothing makes them stop /
the testing's not working.
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Old 06-08-16, 12:17 PM   #9
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But the rule breaking is what makes it wrong, or not, for most things.
You say this a lot. It's still wrong.
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Old 06-08-16, 12:30 PM   #10
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You say this a lot. It's still wrong.
Example. How is taking a B12 shot wrong?
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Old 06-08-16, 12:40 PM   #11
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Example. How is taking a B12 shot wrong?
How is taking a B12 shot relevant? We've been down this road before. You keep saying that the only thing that makes doping doping is that it is in violation of the rules. Other people keep pointing out that's ridiculous. The existence of edge cases and gray areas isn't an argument against antidoping, nor should it be some kind of revelation for any adult thinker. It's not deep to point out that the real world is complicated and the lines we draw must inherently be somewhat arbitary. That's just how the universe works and serious people simply recognize it as a fact of life and move on with doing the best they can in spite of it. You keep wanting to argue that the response to the complicated problems of the world is to throw up our hands and say we shouldn't even bother with the rules if they can't be perfect. I've already explained numerous times why I don't think that's a particularly interesting, intelligent or moral stance for putatively grown ass adults to hold. I'm not too interested in going down that road yet again.
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Old 06-08-16, 12:45 PM   #12
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The day EPO and blood bags are legal is the day I stop racing. There are real health concerns with blood transfusions and taking epo and other PEDs. There is also the financial cost. Those rules are in place to protect the most alpha of us meatheads from ourselves, and to keep others that would forego personal health to compete on a level playing field with them from having to do so. I think that ethically supersedes the legality piece. There are plenty of things that are legal to do where you are still a dick for doing them.
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Old 06-08-16, 12:55 PM   #13
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Public image and credibility of the sport is also generally overlooked in these ridiculous discussions. Some ivory tower egghead can talk themselves blue in the face about the supposed pointlessness of making doping illegal (sidebar: it's infuriating that supposedly smart people with Ph.D.s will act as though the trivial fact that the world is complicated is Very Important And Undermines All Rule Making). But will Joe and Jane Q. Public take a sport that allows doping seriously? Will they let their kids participate in it? Will they think positively about the amateur and professional participants in that sport? The answer is Oh Hell to the No. Let's bury this crap. Having a supposed expert on your antidoping panel who is publicly opining that maybe antidoping isn't such a great idea is an obvious and massive PR liability and it would be completely irresponsible for USAC to NOT remove that person.
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Old 06-08-16, 01:00 PM   #14
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Taking a B12 shot is not allowed. If taking one and competing - you broke the rules. I think you were "wrong", if not competing you are not wrong. But you were wrong only because it is a rule. The list is long of things that are fine to do other than, and only that they are against the rules.

I am not interested in a right/wrong discussion. I think bringing it into sports is the error that keeps everything from getting fixed. I'm interested in as even of a playing field as possible in a sport.

It seems when folks compete in the same local area they understand what is/is not allowed. When you mix, it is not so understood. Folks have very different ideas of what is wrong. So my point is rules should be made to make the competition even. If a venue everyone understands the unwritten stuff and follows it - no problem. But in cycling, it is not working that way right now.

What just happened with Sharapova getting a 2 year ban is the right thing. Seems like it was unintentional, she was forthcoming - and she got the penalty anyway. Start doing that in cycling and I think things will change - just my guess.
Edit: Guess I'm wrong - she got 2 because she didn't intend to. 4 years if intentional.


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Old 06-08-16, 01:08 PM   #15
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The day EPO and blood bags are legal is the day I stop racing. There are real health concerns with blood transfusions and taking epo and other PEDs.
not arguing anything you say, but the above is an odd perspective in consideration of the sport itself. There are many people in this forum with broken spines as a result of racing alone. That's a health concern to me.
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Old 06-08-16, 01:15 PM   #16
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It's pretty much impossible to have an argument with someone as confused about the actual rules as you seem to be. With some very specific and highly limited exceptions (e.g. a handful of Clenbuterol positives), strict liability is the rule under the WADA code. It's in your system, you serve a ban. Period. Have you read the Sharapova opinion? It's clear as day in stating the belief that Sharapova deliberately hid her use of the drug because she knew it was illegal to use while in competition. Doesn't get much more intentional than that.

The system could work better, but, you know, duh. It seem to be your contention that it's just a complete mess that accomplishes nothing. And that's just ridiculous on the face of things.
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Old 06-08-16, 01:23 PM   #17
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In the tribunal's judgement, this justification advanced for the failure by Ms. Sharapova to disclose her regular use of Mildronate before championship matches is untenable. The wording of the doping control form was clear and could not reasonably be misunderstood. She must have known that taking a medication before a match, particularly one not currently prescribed by a doctor, was of considerable significance. This was a deliberate decision, not a mistake. Taken together with the evidence that over a period of 3 years she did not disclose her use of Mildronate to her coach, trainer, physio, nutritionist or any medical adviser she consulted through the WTA, the facts are only consistent with a deliberate decision to keep secret from the anti-doping authorities the fact that she was using Mildronate in competition.
Emphasis added.
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Old 06-08-16, 01:25 PM   #18
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not arguing anything you say, but the above is an odd perspective in consideration of the sport itself. There are many people in this forum with broken spines as a result of racing alone. That's a health concern to me.
That's an interesting devil's advocate position and it never occurred to me to compare the two things. I guess my response would be that there are rules in place to make racing as safe as possible even though accidents sometimes happen. I guess the equivalent to allowing EPO and blood bags would be making line deviations in a sprint legal and justifying it by saying everyone else can choose to move accordingly and it's an inherently dangerous sport anyway. Or allowing full contact bike racing. That would be pretty metal...
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Old 06-08-16, 01:29 PM   #19
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So, the day you're allowed to intentionally deviate from your line and punch or crash out other riders is also the day I retire from racing, because if that's what it takes to compete, I'd rather be a fred.
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Old 06-08-16, 01:52 PM   #20
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It's only doping if it is not allowed. Allow it and you have eliminated one area of doping.
I'm good with whatever the rules are, but when you make rules that you can't enforce, the honest riders are penalized. I think that was his point.
If you were on my anti-doping committee and gave that argument, I'd fire you too, honestly! =]

Don't just change the rules to allow cheating because enforcing honest competition isn't easy..

Peeing in a cup isn't hard, it's not an undue burden on anyone.
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Old 06-08-16, 02:00 PM   #21
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So, the day you're allowed to intentionally deviate from your line and punch or crash out other riders is also the day I retire from racing, because if that's what it takes to compete, I'd rather be a fred.
What happens on the backside of the crit, stays on the backside of the crit!
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Old 06-08-16, 02:26 PM   #22
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...
Peeing in a cup isn't hard, it's not an undue burden on anyone.
https://requestatest.com/tests
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Old 06-08-16, 03:14 PM   #23
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So, the day you're allowed to intentionally deviate from your line and punch or crash out other riders is also the day I retire from racing, because if that's what it takes to compete, I'd rather be a fred.

socal crits...
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Old 06-08-16, 03:15 PM   #24
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What happens on the backside of the crit, stays on the backside of the crit!
how many times has Randy swerved into your or my front wheel to try and intimidate? 100?
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Old 06-08-16, 03:22 PM   #25
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how many times has Randy swerved into your or my front wheel to try and intimidate? 100?
Probably an equal amount of times he's accused me of doing that!
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