Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Giro vs. TdF

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    My Bikes
    Felt F75 Compact, Kona Stuff
    Posts
    53
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Giro vs. TdF

    I seems to me that the Giro is nearly as long and it appears there is much more climbing, Harder and more technical climbing. Why does the Tour de France get more press? I would like to see Lance tackle the Giro against the best, instead of the Tour.

  2. #2
    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    My Bikes
    2004 Trek 5200 w/ Ultegra
    Posts
    1,040
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes it is usually true that pure climbers usually win both the Giro and the Vuelta....while 'all-arounders' usually win the Tour.

    The Tour is perhaps more team oriented. The teams are much deeper at the tour. Only the best 9 riders on the team are selected. Secondly, all the best riders show up at the Tour de France. My guess is..that in the Tour there are usually two or three 'super teams' that have a major effect on the the rest of the lesser teams that may feature pure climbers as their leaders. These 'super teams' would be like a Discovery Channel...or even a T-Mobile or a CSC. Basically these teams can go to the front and hammer the field whenever they want to set up their leaders for an attack later in the stage. These teams can set such a tempo that essentially weakens the field. By the time the race hits the crucial moments...the lesser teams have been hammered into submission. In many cases...the pure climber's advantages have been neutralized.

    My guess is that it is the quality of the field plus team tactics..especially by the 'super teams' that essentially makes the Touyr different. Plus the Tour offers a great variety of terrain. There are a few hard mountain stages, plenty of sprint stages, and many stages that feature rolling terrain. On top of that there are usually several very long TT's...which always includes a very difficult team TT.

    Pure climbers are by nature very thin and fragile. So they tend to get 'beat up' pretty good during the brutal Tour de France. By the time the Tour hits the key mountain stages...many of these climbers have already had their tanks emptied by the pace of the race, the cross winds, the time trials, super team tactics, etc.

    Here's why Heras and Mayo have not won a tour as of yet.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Gustaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    539
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oneradtec
    Pure climbers are by nature very thin and fragile. So they tend to get 'beat up' pretty good during the brutal Tour de France. By the time the Tour hits the key mountain stages...many of these climbers have already had their tanks emptied by the pace of the race, the cross winds, the time trials, super team tactics, etc.

    Here's why Heras and Mayo have not won a tour as of yet.
    for the record, the Vuelta has the most intense cross winds of any grand tour, it has TTT's, and often more TT's than the tour, and i would imaging it also has "super team tactics" as well as a smoking fast pace.

    Look at pantani, he was a pure climber and won the tour.

  4. #4
    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    My Bikes
    2004 Trek 5200 w/ Ultegra
    Posts
    1,040
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gustaf
    for the record, the Vuelta has the most intense cross winds of any grand tour, it has TTT's, and often more TT's than the tour, and i would imaging it also has "super team tactics" as well as a smoking fast pace.

    Look at pantani, he was a pure climber and won the tour.
    No one said there are never exceptions. Secondly, don't fool yourself.........with all due respect, the Vuelta is not the Tour de France.

    If the Vuelta was on the level of the Tour then the Spaniards wouldn't win practically every year. Why can Heras dominate the Vuelta...and yet get crushed in the Tour de France?

    Every year some Italian or Spaniard wins the Vuelta or Giro and is tagged as the next big challenger in the Tour de France. Year after year these pretenders do nothing but disappoint when they go to France. Let's look at some of the more recent past Vuelta and Giro winners....Tonkov, Simoni, Garzelli, Casero, Heras, Gonzales, Gotti, Salvodelli etc. I don't believe that any of them have found the podium of the Tour de France...although most of them have tried.

    The Tour is different. Just because you win the Giro or the Vuelta doesn't mean you can win the Tour. Pantani was an exception........because he was perhaps the greatest pure climber of all time(in his prime). That said...he only won one tour..and that was in 1998 when the field was shattered from the doping scandal.

  5. #5
    Sprockette wabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,503
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I like that the giro is full of surprises, it's almost never decided until the last week. ANd it is harder for some riders because it is not for the time trialers as much as the vuelta. There are usually only two TTs (aside from the prologue) and no TTT. The vuelta OTOH, has FOUR TTs.

    Many riders seem to agree that the climbs in the giro are harder than anything in the tour. Even Lance said the Mortirolo was the hardest climb he ever did in his life, when he was training there last year. And I remember the Zoncolan a couple of years ago- at some points it was 27 per cent!

    I have to say, the Giro is my favorite of the grand tours. The atmosphere is more fun and not as much of a big commercial. It also isn't as much about ONE person; you'll notice there are very few multiple giro winners except for Simoni. RIght now in the race are four other previous winners aside from simoni. Three actually since Garzelli bailed out.
    You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's great...if you want to attract vermin.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Gustaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    539
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oneradtec
    No one said there are never exceptions. Secondly, don't fool yourself.........with all due respect, the Vuelta is not the Tour de France.

    If the Vuelta was on the level of the Tour then the Spaniards wouldn't win practically every year. Why can Heras dominate the Vuelta...and yet get crushed in the Tour de France?

    Every year some Italian or Spaniard wins the Vuelta or Giro and is tagged as the next big challenger in the Tour de France. Year after year these pretenders do nothing but disappoint when they go to France. Let's look at some of the more recent past Vuelta and Giro winners....Tonkov, Simoni, Garzelli, Casero, Heras, Gonzales, Gotti, Salvodelli etc. I don't believe that any of them have found the podium of the Tour de France...although most of them have tried.

    The Tour is different. Just because you win the Giro or the Vuelta doesn't mean you can win the Tour. Pantani was an exception........because he was perhaps the greatest pure climber of all time(in his prime). That said...he only won one tour..and that was in 1998 when the field was shattered from the doping scandal.

    Yes I agree with you that generally the tour seems to be a tougher race, but I think this is more because for whatever reason it draws the best riders. But I dont think its harder because of the time trials, winds, stage topography, etc..

    If you took the entire tdf start list and had them ride the Giro course or Vuelta, would those races be easier? thats hard to say, and probably impossible to determine, but I would think no. the riders make the race.

  7. #7
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,574
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Gustaf is correct. The Tour is the hardest because that's where all the money lies (advertising, sponsorhip etc) and because of that, all of the public attention is focused there moreso than any other race (for the most part). This puts each team in position to have the best, most competitive riders in the race for all of the prestige and sponsorship deals that come with success in the Tour.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    My Bikes
    Scapin EOS7 sloping, 10v Record, Ksyriums
    Posts
    6,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Moreno Argentin said: "The Giro is kindergarten compared to the university that is the Tour de France."

    I reckon he'd know.

  9. #9
    Lanterne Rouge simplyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    My Bikes
    Time VX Edge
    Posts
    1,993
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Does that mean us amateurs have a better chance of going to the Giro? ^^
    LOL...

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    My Bikes
    Scapin EOS7 sloping, 10v Record, Ksyriums
    Posts
    6,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nah...it means 4 year olds race around Italy for 3 weeks.

  11. #11
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Green Mountain, Colorado
    My Bikes
    Gianni Motta Criterium, Dean Hardtail
    Posts
    1,521
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, the Tour de France is longer than any of the other Grand Tours.

    Then there is the level of competition. All the best Itialian riders do the Giro. All the best Spanish riders do the Vuelta. But all the best riders PERIOD do the Tour.

    It would be interesting to see how Armstrong would do in the Giro or Vuelta. I suspect he'd kick butt but the Vuelta and Gi8ro are "different" as well. The Italians and Spanish - especially the Spanish - just go nuts on home turf sending out attack after attack. Like the French do on Bastille Day in the Tour. But everyday!

    But anyone who says that either race is "easy" or "minor" doesn't know what they're talking about. Winning any of the Grand Tours is an incredible feat.

    C

  12. #12
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,574
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lance has already done the Vuelta, and he finished 4th in 1998. The man that won that particular Vuelta was Abraham Olano.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ...and then some Ullrich guy won it (the Vuelta) in 1999.

  14. #14
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,574
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Let's not kid ourselves Rene, Ullrich doesn't win anything, remember? Except the '97 Tour.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Let's not kid ourselves Rene, Ullrich doesn't win anything, remember? Except the '97 Tour.
    I know. What was I thinking?

    Next I'll have him winning Olympic medals, World Time Trial Championships, National Championships, Italian Classics...oh man, I should stop.

    I'm not sure I have a strong opinion either way (Giro vs. TdeF), but this years Giro stage through the Olympic Valley looks like murder and murder looks like this:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...tages/giro0519

  16. #16
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,316
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingRene

    I'm not sure I have a strong opinion either way (Giro vs. TdeF), but this years Giro stage through the Olympic Valley looks like murder and murder looks like this:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...tages/giro0519
    That may be the most brutal day of racing I've seen in years.
    i may have overreacted

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    My Bikes
    Scapin EOS7 sloping, 10v Record, Ksyriums
    Posts
    6,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Abraham Olano.

    Could ride a bit.

  18. #18
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,574
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ed073
    Could ride a bit.
    Just a little.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    My Bikes
    Scapin EOS7 sloping, 10v Record, Ksyriums
    Posts
    6,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    1995....Duitama. Awesome day.

    I formally annointed him legend status after that.

    I couldn't wait to get one of those shiny new ITM Eclypse stems after that and wrap my bars with pale blue tape to make my POS look like a Mapei C40.

    God I was a loser back then.

  20. #20
    El Diablo 2Rodies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
    My Bikes
    Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
    Posts
    2,750
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Giro get short changed IMHO and if we actually got the same coverage as we do for the Tour I think it would be appreciated a lot more.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •