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Old 05-22-05, 01:48 AM   #1
gonefishing4eve
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Giro vs. TdF

I seems to me that the Giro is nearly as long and it appears there is much more climbing, Harder and more technical climbing. Why does the Tour de France get more press? I would like to see Lance tackle the Giro against the best, instead of the Tour.
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Old 05-22-05, 05:48 AM   #2
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Yes it is usually true that pure climbers usually win both the Giro and the Vuelta....while 'all-arounders' usually win the Tour.

The Tour is perhaps more team oriented. The teams are much deeper at the tour. Only the best 9 riders on the team are selected. Secondly, all the best riders show up at the Tour de France. My guess is..that in the Tour there are usually two or three 'super teams' that have a major effect on the the rest of the lesser teams that may feature pure climbers as their leaders. These 'super teams' would be like a Discovery Channel...or even a T-Mobile or a CSC. Basically these teams can go to the front and hammer the field whenever they want to set up their leaders for an attack later in the stage. These teams can set such a tempo that essentially weakens the field. By the time the race hits the crucial moments...the lesser teams have been hammered into submission. In many cases...the pure climber's advantages have been neutralized.

My guess is that it is the quality of the field plus team tactics..especially by the 'super teams' that essentially makes the Touyr different. Plus the Tour offers a great variety of terrain. There are a few hard mountain stages, plenty of sprint stages, and many stages that feature rolling terrain. On top of that there are usually several very long TT's...which always includes a very difficult team TT.

Pure climbers are by nature very thin and fragile. So they tend to get 'beat up' pretty good during the brutal Tour de France. By the time the Tour hits the key mountain stages...many of these climbers have already had their tanks emptied by the pace of the race, the cross winds, the time trials, super team tactics, etc.

Here's why Heras and Mayo have not won a tour as of yet.
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Old 05-22-05, 09:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by oneradtec
Pure climbers are by nature very thin and fragile. So they tend to get 'beat up' pretty good during the brutal Tour de France. By the time the Tour hits the key mountain stages...many of these climbers have already had their tanks emptied by the pace of the race, the cross winds, the time trials, super team tactics, etc.

Here's why Heras and Mayo have not won a tour as of yet.
for the record, the Vuelta has the most intense cross winds of any grand tour, it has TTT's, and often more TT's than the tour, and i would imaging it also has "super team tactics" as well as a smoking fast pace.

Look at pantani, he was a pure climber and won the tour.
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Old 05-22-05, 01:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Gustaf
for the record, the Vuelta has the most intense cross winds of any grand tour, it has TTT's, and often more TT's than the tour, and i would imaging it also has "super team tactics" as well as a smoking fast pace.

Look at pantani, he was a pure climber and won the tour.
No one said there are never exceptions. Secondly, don't fool yourself.........with all due respect, the Vuelta is not the Tour de France.

If the Vuelta was on the level of the Tour then the Spaniards wouldn't win practically every year. Why can Heras dominate the Vuelta...and yet get crushed in the Tour de France?

Every year some Italian or Spaniard wins the Vuelta or Giro and is tagged as the next big challenger in the Tour de France. Year after year these pretenders do nothing but disappoint when they go to France. Let's look at some of the more recent past Vuelta and Giro winners....Tonkov, Simoni, Garzelli, Casero, Heras, Gonzales, Gotti, Salvodelli etc. I don't believe that any of them have found the podium of the Tour de France...although most of them have tried.

The Tour is different. Just because you win the Giro or the Vuelta doesn't mean you can win the Tour. Pantani was an exception........because he was perhaps the greatest pure climber of all time(in his prime). That said...he only won one tour..and that was in 1998 when the field was shattered from the doping scandal.
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Old 05-22-05, 01:46 PM   #5
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I like that the giro is full of surprises, it's almost never decided until the last week. ANd it is harder for some riders because it is not for the time trialers as much as the vuelta. There are usually only two TTs (aside from the prologue) and no TTT. The vuelta OTOH, has FOUR TTs.

Many riders seem to agree that the climbs in the giro are harder than anything in the tour. Even Lance said the Mortirolo was the hardest climb he ever did in his life, when he was training there last year. And I remember the Zoncolan a couple of years ago- at some points it was 27 per cent!

I have to say, the Giro is my favorite of the grand tours. The atmosphere is more fun and not as much of a big commercial. It also isn't as much about ONE person; you'll notice there are very few multiple giro winners except for Simoni. RIght now in the race are four other previous winners aside from simoni. Three actually since Garzelli bailed out.
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Old 05-22-05, 02:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneradtec
No one said there are never exceptions. Secondly, don't fool yourself.........with all due respect, the Vuelta is not the Tour de France.

If the Vuelta was on the level of the Tour then the Spaniards wouldn't win practically every year. Why can Heras dominate the Vuelta...and yet get crushed in the Tour de France?

Every year some Italian or Spaniard wins the Vuelta or Giro and is tagged as the next big challenger in the Tour de France. Year after year these pretenders do nothing but disappoint when they go to France. Let's look at some of the more recent past Vuelta and Giro winners....Tonkov, Simoni, Garzelli, Casero, Heras, Gonzales, Gotti, Salvodelli etc. I don't believe that any of them have found the podium of the Tour de France...although most of them have tried.

The Tour is different. Just because you win the Giro or the Vuelta doesn't mean you can win the Tour. Pantani was an exception........because he was perhaps the greatest pure climber of all time(in his prime). That said...he only won one tour..and that was in 1998 when the field was shattered from the doping scandal.

Yes I agree with you that generally the tour seems to be a tougher race, but I think this is more because for whatever reason it draws the best riders. But I dont think its harder because of the time trials, winds, stage topography, etc..

If you took the entire tdf start list and had them ride the Giro course or Vuelta, would those races be easier? thats hard to say, and probably impossible to determine, but I would think no. the riders make the race.
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Old 05-22-05, 03:40 PM   #7
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Gustaf is correct. The Tour is the hardest because that's where all the money lies (advertising, sponsorhip etc) and because of that, all of the public attention is focused there moreso than any other race (for the most part). This puts each team in position to have the best, most competitive riders in the race for all of the prestige and sponsorship deals that come with success in the Tour.
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Old 05-23-05, 06:49 PM   #8
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Moreno Argentin said: "The Giro is kindergarten compared to the university that is the Tour de France."

I reckon he'd know.
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Old 05-23-05, 09:20 PM   #9
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Does that mean us amateurs have a better chance of going to the Giro? ^^
LOL...
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Old 05-23-05, 09:22 PM   #10
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Nah...it means 4 year olds race around Italy for 3 weeks.
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Old 05-24-05, 09:02 AM   #11
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Well, the Tour de France is longer than any of the other Grand Tours.

Then there is the level of competition. All the best Itialian riders do the Giro. All the best Spanish riders do the Vuelta. But all the best riders PERIOD do the Tour.

It would be interesting to see how Armstrong would do in the Giro or Vuelta. I suspect he'd kick butt but the Vuelta and Gi8ro are "different" as well. The Italians and Spanish - especially the Spanish - just go nuts on home turf sending out attack after attack. Like the French do on Bastille Day in the Tour. But everyday!

But anyone who says that either race is "easy" or "minor" doesn't know what they're talking about. Winning any of the Grand Tours is an incredible feat.

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Old 05-24-05, 02:14 PM   #12
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Lance has already done the Vuelta, and he finished 4th in 1998. The man that won that particular Vuelta was Abraham Olano.
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Old 05-24-05, 02:19 PM   #13
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...and then some Ullrich guy won it (the Vuelta) in 1999.
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Old 05-24-05, 02:36 PM   #14
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Let's not kid ourselves Rene, Ullrich doesn't win anything, remember? Except the '97 Tour.
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Old 05-24-05, 02:48 PM   #15
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Let's not kid ourselves Rene, Ullrich doesn't win anything, remember? Except the '97 Tour.
I know. What was I thinking?

Next I'll have him winning Olympic medals, World Time Trial Championships, National Championships, Italian Classics...oh man, I should stop.

I'm not sure I have a strong opinion either way (Giro vs. TdeF), but this years Giro stage through the Olympic Valley looks like murder and murder looks like this:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...tages/giro0519
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Old 05-24-05, 03:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by KingRene

I'm not sure I have a strong opinion either way (Giro vs. TdeF), but this years Giro stage through the Olympic Valley looks like murder and murder looks like this:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...tages/giro0519
That may be the most brutal day of racing I've seen in years.
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Old 05-24-05, 04:30 PM   #17
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Abraham Olano.

Could ride a bit.
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Old 05-24-05, 05:00 PM   #18
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Could ride a bit.
Just a little.
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Old 05-24-05, 05:03 PM   #19
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1995....Duitama. Awesome day.

I formally annointed him legend status after that.

I couldn't wait to get one of those shiny new ITM Eclypse stems after that and wrap my bars with pale blue tape to make my POS look like a Mapei C40.

God I was a loser back then.
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Old 05-24-05, 05:28 PM   #20
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The Giro get short changed IMHO and if we actually got the same coverage as we do for the Tour I think it would be appreciated a lot more.
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