Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

rule question

Old 05-23-05, 08:37 AM
  #1  
Pack Fodder
Thread Starter
 
bigchris603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Keene, NH
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rule question

I was reading the results of a race on bikereg.com. when i saw this notation next to a few of the riders names "Warning: Rule 1.K.4.b". what is this rule or where can i find it?
bigchris603 is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 09:11 AM
  #2  
jerk
 
chairsmissing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WDC
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1K4(b). Riders shall place their numbers as prescribed by the officials and in such a way that they are visible when the rider is in a racing position. Hip numbers shall be attached securely at least at the four corners and no accessory may cover them. If shoulder or frame numbers are provided, they too shall be placed as prescribed. Numbers may not be folded, trimmed, crumpled, or otherwise defaced. [Replacement of the numbers at riders' expense if noted before the start, otherwise warning or relegation.]
chairsmissing is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 09:23 AM
  #3  
Blast from the Past
 
Voodoo76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Schertz TX
Posts: 3,209

Bikes: Felt FR1, Ridley Excal, CAAD10, Trek 5500, Cannondale Slice

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 43 Posts
So are we gonna have another "crumpled number" debate?
Voodoo76 is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 10:07 AM
  #4  
jerk
 
chairsmissing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WDC
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
if you want to avoid penalty then there's no debate. however many many people crumple. i've been a crumpler. i crumple. never been penalized, but i crumple.

crumple.
chairsmissing is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 10:14 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 116

Bikes: '04 Cannondale R600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chairsmissing
if you want to avoid penalty then there's no debate. however many many people crumple. i've been a crumpler. i crumple. never been penalized, but i crumple.

crumple.
Hell, I would go so far as to say that 90% of the field crumples in the races I've seen. Why is that rule even on the books if it is so openly ignored?
jreeder is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 11:06 AM
  #6  
jerk
 
chairsmissing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WDC
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i believe its a saveguard for the judges. they are not responsible for misplaced results due to obscured numbers. racers crumple, and thats that, but arguing for placement when the video finish can't pick up a screwy number sure makes scoring difficult and impractical. its all part of the lubricant to make officiating more efficient.
chairsmissing is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 06:50 PM
  #7  
The cycling student.
 
cyclingute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 124

Bikes: Orbea XLR8R, C-dale Caad4 Aero TT.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jreeder
Hell, I would go so far as to say that 90% of the field crumples in the races I've seen. Why is that rule even on the books if it is so openly ignored?
As an official who scores races (writes down/talks to my digital recorder/whatever to get the numbers) the non-crumpled number is easier to read than a crumpled number. As a racer, I liked to crumple the numbers because they are easier to get 'aero'. Since I officiate, and I like to be able to read the numbers, as a racer I no longer crumple the numbers.

As to why it's a rule? Your guess is a least as good as mine. My hypothesis is that a group of officials got mad, put it out to a vote (remember when we voted on rules as USCF members?), and it passed. Just my guess.
cyclingute is offline  
Old 05-24-05, 10:50 AM
  #8  
El Diablo
 
2Rodies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Posts: 2,750

Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chairsmissing
if you want to avoid penalty then there's no debate. however many many people crumple. i've been a crumpler. i crumple. never been penalized, but i crumple.

crumple.
Hello my name is Michael and I too am a crumpler (is that even a word?). I've never been dinged for it and as far as I can tell neither has anyone I know. This may be one of those rules that all officials ignore.
2Rodies is offline  
Old 05-24-05, 02:00 PM
  #9  
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
I crumple all the time.
I've been crumpling for a long time.

But, having said that, I'm also a smoother-outer.

The rule is there in case they ever need to settle a dispute.
Or if the Official's name is Gary.
EventServices is offline  
Old 05-24-05, 02:28 PM
  #10  
The cycling student.
 
cyclingute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 124

Bikes: Orbea XLR8R, C-dale Caad4 Aero TT.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would that official be Gary Bywater?
cyclingute is offline  
Old 05-24-05, 06:50 PM
  #11  
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
Nope. But every district has one like him, though.
EventServices is offline  
Old 05-24-05, 07:16 PM
  #12  
Blast from the Past
 
Voodoo76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Schertz TX
Posts: 3,209

Bikes: Felt FR1, Ridley Excal, CAAD10, Trek 5500, Cannondale Slice

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 43 Posts
Is this the Crumplers Anonamous meeting??
Voodoo76 is offline  
Old 05-25-05, 07:23 AM
  #13  
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
Yeah, it's held right after the Bad-Speller's Anonymous meeting.

ha ha ha ha Voodoo! ha ha ha ha hAH AH AHSDHDAS DHAS (convulsions ensue)
EventServices is offline  
Old 05-25-05, 07:29 AM
  #14  
Evil Genius
 
capsicum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sumner, WA
Posts: 1,529

Bikes: '92 novara ponderosa, '74 schwinn le tour, Novara fusion, novara transfer, novara randonee(2), novara careema pro, novara bonita(2).

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
At the last race I was at the officials told everyone at sign in to crumple there tyvek, so it would lay flatter and not flap in the breeze.
capsicum is offline  
Old 05-25-05, 08:12 AM
  #15  
Blast from the Past
 
Voodoo76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Schertz TX
Posts: 3,209

Bikes: Felt FR1, Ridley Excal, CAAD10, Trek 5500, Cannondale Slice

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by EventServices
Yeah, it's held right after the Bad-Speller's Anonymous meeting.

ha ha ha ha Voodoo! ha ha ha ha hAH AH AHSDHDAS DHAS (convulsions ensue)
Is this the Bad Spellers Anonamus thread?
Voodoo76 is offline  
Old 05-28-05, 11:13 PM
  #16  
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I too am an USCF official and race as well.

I also know the problems with scoring (especially when viewing the video from the finish).

Guys (& Gals), do yourself and us a favor. Put your numbers under your arms (i.e. along the side of your jersey). Besides, making it easier for the camera to pick up your numbers and for us to identify you, you can eliminate some of the drag from the number because it's not on your back but under your arm.

Every race, there are numerous occasions when we can't read numbers because they are too high and the glare from the sun washes out the number (or part of it) on the video.

Not this isn't explicitly stated in the USCF rulebook, but, this suggest helps you and the officials.

Please consider it.
--
madcyclist is offline  
Old 05-29-05, 01:51 AM
  #17  
Evil Genius
 
capsicum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sumner, WA
Posts: 1,529

Bikes: '92 novara ponderosa, '74 schwinn le tour, Novara fusion, novara transfer, novara randonee(2), novara careema pro, novara bonita(2).

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Krumpling also reduces glare. At the XC MTB race I did where they told us to crumple, they also told us to put it under our arm. They even had a right way and a wrong way picture showing number placement.

Which did no good as my hydropack had a waist strap that obscured the number.
capsicum is offline  
Old 05-29-05, 12:18 PM
  #18  
Since Ever Since
 
Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What's the benefit of "crumpling", and what exactly is it? Why do you guys do it? I'm not a racer/rider.
Devil is offline  
Old 05-29-05, 01:39 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
filtersweep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Race series and stage races both require racers to reuse our numbers. They simply become crumpled through use.
filtersweep is offline  
Old 05-29-05, 09:01 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I love number crumplers, I especially like their indignant disbelief at being excluded from the result when they haven't claimed their place as requested and have no basis for a protest.

Keep crumpling guys but please just stop wondering why the guys who start a race prepared to win keep beating you.
bikejack is offline  
Old 05-29-05, 10:26 PM
  #21  
Elitist Jackass
 
Smoothie104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,262

Bikes: Cannondale 2.8, Specialized S-works E5 road, GT Talera

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Devil
What's the benefit of "crumpling", and what exactly is it? Why do you guys do it? I'm not a racer/rider.

Devil, when you sign in at the races, they give your your number, which is printed on some strong thick ripstop paper. Its somtimes stiff and when you pin it on, it never wants to lay flat. Some guys think that if it is catching wind like a parachute, its going to slow them down.

By crumpling it up, and then smoothing it out, it softens the material and allows it to lay flatter. The Pros wear them on thier backs, but in the USCF races, you are asked to wear it on your side, left of right, depnding on where the camera/announcer is.
Smoothie104 is offline  
Old 05-30-05, 11:32 PM
  #22  
Evil Genius
 
capsicum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sumner, WA
Posts: 1,529

Bikes: '92 novara ponderosa, '74 schwinn le tour, Novara fusion, novara transfer, novara randonee(2), novara careema pro, novara bonita(2).

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tyvek house wrap, is the stuff they print on. It is a water proof, nearly tear proof, vapor barrier, and rot proof plastic-paper. US priority mail envelopes are also made of the stuff.
capsicum is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:20 AM
  #23  
sundy hopeful
 
berny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,068

Bikes: Connondale MTB, Malvern Star (historic) Orbea, GT (newest)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My guess is that if you shave you have to crumple or you just ain't legit.

[Can you imagine some dude fronting the starter with hairy legs and a non crumpled No. Makes you sick just thinking about it.]
berny is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 03:14 AM
  #24  
Since Ever Since
 
Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanations guys.
Devil is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 03:30 AM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by berny
My guess is that if you shave you have to crumple or you just ain't legit.

[Can you imagine some dude fronting the starter with hairy legs and a non crumpled No. Makes you sick just thinking about it.]
I'm a bit worried Berny, that almost made sense!
classic1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.