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Old 05-23-05, 08:37 AM   #1
bigchris603
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rule question

I was reading the results of a race on bikereg.com. when i saw this notation next to a few of the riders names "Warning: Rule 1.K.4.b". what is this rule or where can i find it?
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Old 05-23-05, 09:11 AM   #2
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1K4(b). Riders shall place their numbers as prescribed by the officials and in such a way that they are visible when the rider is in a racing position. Hip numbers shall be attached securely at least at the four corners and no accessory may cover them. If shoulder or frame numbers are provided, they too shall be placed as prescribed. Numbers may not be folded, trimmed, crumpled, or otherwise defaced. [Replacement of the numbers at riders' expense if noted before the start, otherwise warning or relegation.]
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Old 05-23-05, 09:23 AM   #3
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So are we gonna have another "crumpled number" debate?
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Old 05-23-05, 10:07 AM   #4
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if you want to avoid penalty then there's no debate. however many many people crumple. i've been a crumpler. i crumple. never been penalized, but i crumple.

crumple.
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Old 05-23-05, 10:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chairsmissing
if you want to avoid penalty then there's no debate. however many many people crumple. i've been a crumpler. i crumple. never been penalized, but i crumple.

crumple.
Hell, I would go so far as to say that 90% of the field crumples in the races I've seen. Why is that rule even on the books if it is so openly ignored?
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Old 05-23-05, 11:06 AM   #6
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i believe its a saveguard for the judges. they are not responsible for misplaced results due to obscured numbers. racers crumple, and thats that, but arguing for placement when the video finish can't pick up a screwy number sure makes scoring difficult and impractical. its all part of the lubricant to make officiating more efficient.
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Old 05-23-05, 06:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jreeder
Hell, I would go so far as to say that 90% of the field crumples in the races I've seen. Why is that rule even on the books if it is so openly ignored?
As an official who scores races (writes down/talks to my digital recorder/whatever to get the numbers) the non-crumpled number is easier to read than a crumpled number. As a racer, I liked to crumple the numbers because they are easier to get 'aero'. Since I officiate, and I like to be able to read the numbers, as a racer I no longer crumple the numbers.

As to why it's a rule? Your guess is a least as good as mine. My hypothesis is that a group of officials got mad, put it out to a vote (remember when we voted on rules as USCF members?), and it passed. Just my guess.
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Old 05-24-05, 10:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chairsmissing
if you want to avoid penalty then there's no debate. however many many people crumple. i've been a crumpler. i crumple. never been penalized, but i crumple.

crumple.
Hello my name is Michael and I too am a crumpler (is that even a word?). I've never been dinged for it and as far as I can tell neither has anyone I know. This may be one of those rules that all officials ignore.
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Old 05-24-05, 02:00 PM   #9
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I crumple all the time.
I've been crumpling for a long time.

But, having said that, I'm also a smoother-outer.

The rule is there in case they ever need to settle a dispute.
Or if the Official's name is Gary.
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Old 05-24-05, 02:28 PM   #10
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Would that official be Gary Bywater?
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Old 05-24-05, 06:50 PM   #11
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Nope. But every district has one like him, though.
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Old 05-24-05, 07:16 PM   #12
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Is this the Crumplers Anonamous meeting??
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Old 05-25-05, 07:23 AM   #13
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Yeah, it's held right after the Bad-Speller's Anonymous meeting.

ha ha ha ha Voodoo! ha ha ha ha hAH AH AHSDHDAS DHAS (convulsions ensue)
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Old 05-25-05, 07:29 AM   #14
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At the last race I was at the officials told everyone at sign in to crumple there tyvek, so it would lay flatter and not flap in the breeze.
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Old 05-25-05, 08:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices
Yeah, it's held right after the Bad-Speller's Anonymous meeting.

ha ha ha ha Voodoo! ha ha ha ha hAH AH AHSDHDAS DHAS (convulsions ensue)
Is this the Bad Spellers Anonamus thread?
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Old 05-28-05, 11:13 PM   #16
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I too am an USCF official and race as well.

I also know the problems with scoring (especially when viewing the video from the finish).

Guys (& Gals), do yourself and us a favor. Put your numbers under your arms (i.e. along the side of your jersey). Besides, making it easier for the camera to pick up your numbers and for us to identify you, you can eliminate some of the drag from the number because it's not on your back but under your arm.

Every race, there are numerous occasions when we can't read numbers because they are too high and the glare from the sun washes out the number (or part of it) on the video.

Not this isn't explicitly stated in the USCF rulebook, but, this suggest helps you and the officials.

Please consider it.
--
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Old 05-29-05, 01:51 AM   #17
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Krumpling also reduces glare. At the XC MTB race I did where they told us to crumple, they also told us to put it under our arm. They even had a right way and a wrong way picture showing number placement.

Which did no good as my hydropack had a waist strap that obscured the number.
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Old 05-29-05, 12:18 PM   #18
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What's the benefit of "crumpling", and what exactly is it? Why do you guys do it? I'm not a racer/rider.
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Old 05-29-05, 01:39 PM   #19
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Race series and stage races both require racers to reuse our numbers. They simply become crumpled through use.
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Old 05-29-05, 09:01 PM   #20
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I love number crumplers, I especially like their indignant disbelief at being excluded from the result when they haven't claimed their place as requested and have no basis for a protest.

Keep crumpling guys but please just stop wondering why the guys who start a race prepared to win keep beating you.
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Old 05-29-05, 10:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil
What's the benefit of "crumpling", and what exactly is it? Why do you guys do it? I'm not a racer/rider.

Devil, when you sign in at the races, they give your your number, which is printed on some strong thick ripstop paper. Its somtimes stiff and when you pin it on, it never wants to lay flat. Some guys think that if it is catching wind like a parachute, its going to slow them down.

By crumpling it up, and then smoothing it out, it softens the material and allows it to lay flatter. The Pros wear them on thier backs, but in the USCF races, you are asked to wear it on your side, left of right, depnding on where the camera/announcer is.
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Old 05-30-05, 11:32 PM   #22
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Tyvek house wrap, is the stuff they print on. It is a water proof, nearly tear proof, vapor barrier, and rot proof plastic-paper. US priority mail envelopes are also made of the stuff.
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Old 05-31-05, 02:20 AM   #23
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My guess is that if you shave you have to crumple or you just ain't legit.

[Can you imagine some dude fronting the starter with hairy legs and a non crumpled No. Makes you sick just thinking about it.]
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Old 05-31-05, 03:14 AM   #24
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Makes sense. Thanks for the explanations guys.
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Old 05-31-05, 03:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berny
My guess is that if you shave you have to crumple or you just ain't legit.

[Can you imagine some dude fronting the starter with hairy legs and a non crumpled No. Makes you sick just thinking about it.]
I'm a bit worried Berny, that almost made sense!
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