scheibo

Stanford "Storm the Fort" RR - P123 - 3/11

bad week for riding (rain/work/bad legs), but was hoping to feel better during the race. 9 laps/60mi/6.5k ft. small field, but races like these seem to only attract climbers. 3 other teammates in the race, so we had a pretty dominant presence. originally the field size was only 9 but 2 masters racers decided to switch fields on the line which was awesome (yay points!). plan was to sit in, survive until lap 7 and then attack with a lap and a half to go after the 2nd to last time up the 2.5 minute steep climb.

first two laps were easy, no real attacks until one of the masters attacked leading into the third lap. field gave him 5-10s, eventually one of my teammates bridged and i just sat behind the super strong climber i usually shadow and let him get frustrated that i wouldn't pull through to chase down my own teammate. on the descent a rider attacked and i knew I had to follow even though i am absolutely dreadful at putting down power on descents/descending in general. apparently had to sustain 400W+ on the downhill which is pretty good for me. we were close to catching onto my teammate and the rider who had originally kicked thing off by the end of the descent, which then immediately turns 110 degrees and starts climbing a steep 2-3 minute climb. changing gears and going from trying to put out high power downhill to uphill is a big shock to the system (reminds me of the BK->BR transition in an IM from my days as a swimmer), but i managed to hold on and once the bridge was complete things backed off a bit. the masters rider fell off and the uber climber (i keep hyping his climbing prowess, but just this week he took KOMs from the Tour of California riders, so he's pretty darn good) and another of my teammates bridged, leaving a break of 5 with 3 from my team.

it should have been clear at that point that if the field let 3 riders from the same team get away in a break that the race was pretty much over, but we worked hard for 2 laps to make sure the field was distanced. the strong climber ended up having a mechanical where his durace 9000 cassette broke (apparently not that uncommon, i feel vindicated for running ultegra) so he was forced to ride a lap unable to shift properly before he found a replacement wheel, meaning we were able to drop him and leave it as 3v1. no official would give us any information about the gap, but i kind of knew it was >2-3min (probably 5:00+) and so we probably should have started attacking the solo rider then to make him work for several laps. instead, we kicked off the attacks on the last lap, at which point we were mostly firing blanks.

predictably, things kicked off on the final time up the climb when my 120lb teammate attacked and i was dropped like a rock as my quads/hamstrings cramped up. i just tried to keep tempo up the climb and ended up passing my other teammate who also imploded, leaving me in no man's land soloing for 3rd for the last few miles. in the end the result was reminiscent of Stannard's 2015 win at Het Nieuwsblad, with our team taking 2-3-4 and losing to the solo rider. i dont think we did too much tactically wrong other than just not trying to attack earlier, in the end he ended up just being really strong.

Takeaways
- as much as i like climbs, this one was a little steep for me. other bike racers seem good at just conserving energy for 15 minutes and then hitting the climb hard every lap, whereas i would love to evenly pace things (which wouldn't happen unless i was solo). however, the winner was a much large rider than me, so i can't really use 'the climb was too steep' as a good excuse. working to become less of a 'diesel' rider is something i should work on though.
- i need to figure out how to be able to deliver at the end of a race. im good at making the break and getting it to stick, but then not being able to respond to hard efforts in the closing kilometres. moar fitness would help, as would conserving more over the course of the race. i'm wondering if its also something you can train - like doing hard repeats at the end of a long ride. or just by doing more races.
- yay for having teammates. nice to finally be in a race where teammates were a huge boon. having 2 other people which you *know* will cooperate in a break of 4 is very convenient. the solo winner is an unattached cat 1, so i'm trying to get him to join the team so i'll have even more strong climbing teammates in the future.

grolby

GJ @scheibo!

Let me know if you figure this one out, it's by far my biggest weakness and in 9 years I have yet to solve it. My current plan is to do some of what you say here - build more long-range fitness, do workouts requiring me to put down efforts when I'm already tired. The other part is to work on developing more strength, especially core, but also leg and arm/shoulders. Transferring hundreds of watts through your core over a few hours weakens those muscles and in my case, they eventually break down. It's not uncommon for me to not be so much out of gas but just unable to keep delivering power. I'm not a naturally strong/muscular body type, so I believe putting more emphasis on strength in my training could be important.

ntnyln

It must be "it can finish strong" week. I was noodling the same thing after a few recent workouts and races. I was leaning towards needing to learn how to htfu a little bit more when the going gets tough and your tired. More fitness is always welcome and lessens the need for suffering. It also means I don't have to deal with being a mental noodle, so keep me on that list of people to notify when you figure it out.

tetonrider

yes.

wouldn't that make things less fun? if you take that guy out of your story, the race isn't too interesting, right?

nice job with your racing. looks like you've had great success!

i'm not scheibo, but i do have a few insights into your strengths and limiters. i don't think your body type is a limiter at all; you could address this through training in multiple ways.

miyata man

State Fair Crit #1 - 4/5 - 43/59

In rough order of recollection; lined up in back - elastic broke 10 guys ahead of me within 1/4 lap - jumped past into no mans land - lapped - hopped back on - surfed the middle - massive slowdowns - diced up the entire field right down the center after exiting a turn - decided to have some fun since my placing is meaningless - dropped again- shortly after realized I forgot to start Garmin

Got a handful of compliments and didn't get yelled at. Made all sorts of mistakes that didn't impact others. Would call it a success if they didn't announce on the starting line that all previous years, and probably all to come, were USAC affiliated, but not this one. 0/10 races completed towards upgrade.

scheibo

thanks. and iunno, i wonder what the politics are of having a guaranteed podium locked up with three teammates. do we all just cross the line holding hands? or at what point am i allowed to attack them to go for the win? i think thats one of those 'good problems' to have, so when it happens ill see if its any more or less fun.

aaronmcd

At CCCX last year Erik Camacho and I were together racing for 6th or something. No upgrade points, but there were BAT points on the line and he was eligible but I wasn't (maybe I was a 3 and he was a 2, can't remember though). So he asked for the better placing for the extra BAT point and I sat up at the sprint. I've seen teammates come across more or less together on purpose as well. At the track once the miss and out was down to me and a teammate and we went for the sprint. He won. I think you just do whatever you feel like. At 30+ state champs last year it was a tiny field and me and a teammate were coming in 5th and 6th. He had done a good bit more work chasing than I was able to, so I sat up and let him take 5th even though I could have easily taken it. He deserved better placing that day and hell, 5th doesn't really mean much anyway.

grolby

Indeed you do! Hope to talk more about this stuff in the future. Such a lot of things going on right now, though.

grolby

I know my teammates well enough to know that if we had a podium sewn up between us, we would proceed with attempting to annihilate each other and then laugh about it in the parking lot. It's really down to what kind of relationship you have with them.

scheibo

dz_nuzz

I am going to drag my team on "choreography" rides so we can practice our coordinated victory salute.

Results last a week, amazing finish line photos last forever.

mike868y

if we ever sweep a podium i'll sell all my cycling related equipment the next day.

aplcr0331

1st Crit. They just put everyone in groups, so I was in "B" group. It was pretty fast, I held on in the pack until the last 3 turns then got dropped. Last place. Got to the front, even (stupidly) did a pull just to see what it was like out in front leading. Worked on my cornering skills, nobody yelled me, there were no wrecks so it was a success. Just didn't quite have enough in the ****** to hang on in the end.


I notice that I was putting out more power than most because I'm 233lbs and was probably out in the wind too much. Next week I'll try to sit in more, and perhaps I'll change my tires over to the Conti's. I kept my 28mm gravel king tires on because of the RR I did this weekend. I might feel a bit more comfy in the corners with (possibly) better gripping tires.

dz_nuzz

Last place. Got to the front, even (stupidly) did a pull just to see what it was like out in front leading. Worked on my cornering skills: This is great for your first crit. First off you finished. Many people DNF their first crit. Second, someone needs to pull at some point. We have all done this don't feel stupid about pulling in your first race. Learning how to lead is a skill as well. And third you worked on cornering skills.

perhaps I'll change my tires over to the Conti's. I kept my 28mm gravel king tires on Do this. DO THIS. Tires make a huge difference. Get some GP4ks on your bike and you will be amazed at how much easier it is. I have come to appreciate how all the little things add up to make a big difference, tires are not a "little thing".

And, Congrats on your first crit!

dz_nuzz

My take is that the teammate who needs the most points (if that is what you are racing for) should be allowed the highest points. Granted that is a team by team thing, but it is how I would personally play it. Perhaps you could argue that the one who wins against his teammates deserves the most points out of them. The hunt for points is fresh enough in my mind that I can appreciate how much every single point matters.

scheibo

yeah, that actually came up briefly when it was my teammate and i with guaranteed 3+4. he's a 2, so points are ostensibly harder to come by than as a 3. if he had asked i probably would have given 3rd to him, but before we could even discuss it he told me to go on ahead and chase to provide pressure and a sense of urgency to the battle up the road for 1+2.

mattm

Congrats on your first of hopefully many crits!! Sounds like it went well.

Wylde06

I pinned a number on today and rode around a race track for an hour, and didnt completely suck at it.

One small hill on the course. I swear that thing grew 5-10 feet every lap. Started to wear on me by the end, had to close a few gaps that would open up when I got to the top and started to descend. Ended up 25th or so, which I am completely happy with. Main goal of the first race of the season was to not get dropped...so mission accomplished. Today was about getting back out there and getting the first race of the season jitters out of the way.

One more race in the series next weekend, so if I go I will work on positioning a little more and shoot for a better finish.

https://www.strava.com/activities/943785570#kudos

grolby

Don't make promises you can't keep.

Costco hot dogs

Elkridge Spring Classic RR, Elkridge MD - M4 6/51

rolling 5 mile laps, one "big" climb. Fussed around at 20 wheels back then moved to top 10 after 2 laps. Centerline made it a bit harder to move up. By 5th lap, the hill was popping people. Stayed calm but got boxed in on lap 5 climb. Bell lap I made sure to position for the climb. Bell lap climb a few started going backwards and the road opened up. Jumped around wheels and caught on to lead group into the finish downhill. Made a few positions, went far left to sprint out, but a racer came into my line - off the gas for 6th. Fun race, I liked the course.

aaronmcd

Well, I did that 109 mile race I was bound to get dropped in. A few pros in the mix. Including a real deal protour guy apparently (I wouldn't have known except my teammate got his wheel from the follow car). All the super strong guys Ive never raced with show up for this one. None of this matters cuz I didnt last half a lap.

This year, instead of 4 layers of pothole patches covering all the roads, there were 5 and the new one was fresh with gravely asphalt flying up everywhere. Another race where having crappy tire clearance sucks. I could hear the gravel grinding between my frame and tire up the climb, trying not to think about how many watts I was losing. But it was enough and I was dropped when I blew up super hard a few minutes from the top the first time up the climb. Blew so hard I think I lost 2.5 minutes in 5 minutes. Or so. I discovered later when looking at strava - 11:41 vs my cat 3 times of 9:18 and a few at ~10 minutes. Even crazier is one teammate who is a better climber was with me over the top.

Anyway, finished the lap, rode around solo 4 more laps with not really enough food as I didn't really plan on finishing if I got dropped so early. Feet and back hurt from bumping along, respiration rate was vo2 rate limping slowly over the climbs toward the end. But at least I beat the 38 guys who were too wuss to finish after getting dropped lol!

Might try again next year if I have a new bike with better clearance.

scheibo

Copperopolis RR - E3 - DNF

Same race as Aaron, but the Cat 3 field of 37 did not include a top-10 GT rider and was 4 laps instead of 5. Course involved bad roads (which I dislike) with some climbs (why I like) - supposed to be a very attritional race. After riding another climby race with bad roads a month ago on my S5 and finding it quite unpleasant, I switched out to my more comfort-oriented brand new CAAD12 w/ 28mm tires. I had a CAAD10 in the past and one winter i threw 28mm knobbly tires on it and played around in the dirt and gravel for a bit, so I figured the CAAD12 would be similarly suitable to bad roads.

The bad roads started pretty much immediately and we started out the race hard. There's nothing quite like being in a pack of riders on the rivet and having rocks and gravel flying into your face. I think everyone in the race choked down a bunch of chip seal - there were parts during the ride where I tried to pull a miyata man and not breath through my mouth while riding to avoid inhaling asphalt. Aaron describes it pretty well - its like they layers of patched potholes that they just continually 'fix' instead of actually redoing the road. What I did not count on was that some of the holes were very recently patched, meaning there was plenty of tar/fresh asphalt all over the place.

Got into a good position near the front as we went up the climb for the first time (only a couple miles into the race) when my bike started making noises and slowing down. Eventually, when we got to the steepest part near the top of the climb my wheel just stopped moving and I abruptly came to a halt. I hopped off to see if I had a flat or brake rub or something, but couldn't find anything wrong, and when I got on again I seemed to be able to ride, albeit this time with a 30s gap to close. It took a serious effort and a long while (at least 10 minutes) to bridge back on with some other stragglers, but once I made it back to the pack there was already a group of three 30s clear. I guess the break was forming while I was chasing on and that's why it was so difficult, but knowing who was involved and seeing how big the gap was I knew theyd hold it to the finish. So, barring mechanicals from those 3 I was fighting for 4th. The rest of the first lap was pretty uneventful, modulo some surges/water bottles flying all over/passing people from other fields every mile on the side of the road because they had mechanicals/etc.

Second time up the main climb and I figured I'd avoid the possibility of brake rub by opening up my rear brake, only this didn't help because at the exact same spot my bike came to a complete halt again. It turns out my tires had become coated with the fresh pavement, causing them to swell in size to the point where they no longer had clearance to turn. This was completely my fault for a) just assuming the CAAD12 would have the exact same clearance as my old CAAD10 for 28mms (which it never seemed to struggle with) b) not just running 25mms anyway because 'better safe than sorry'. Either way, this time the tires were well and truly hosed (the pavement is like melted into the tires? i think i have to toss them because i can't figure out a way to even clean them?), and even if I could bridge back to the main group with a rear wheel that could barely move, the same thing would likely happen the next 2 laps as well, meaning I'd hardly contend for the finish.

Takeaways
- I'm happy with my choice of bike + tire pressure, just not my choice of tire width. When I was able to ride it, the bike was super comfy (or at least, relative to my S5 on similarly bad roads).
- I'm happy I didn't give up after getting stuck on the first climb. The race is so attritional that only 13 out of the 37 riders finished (most other fields had a 50%+ drop out rate), and someone from the main group got 3rd, so there was still places to fight for. I dont regret dropping out after my second incident - the 15 minute ride back to the car was almost identical to riding with the rear brake on.
- I had a 23mm wheelset sitting in my trunk that I wanted to put in the follow car, only the race director said there was no follow car (which was not true) so I didnt get to use them. UGH.
- I'm not sure I'll do this race again (maybe like a 40% chance?). I hope to be P12 next year and I'm not sure I'll want to wake up early and drive out to then flip a coin to see whether I get a chance to fight for a top-10 or just flat out on one of the five laps. I also don't think I like the finish being so close to the final descent, I don't think that really suits me (though the descent was much better than at Ward's Ferry). Oh well. I 'did' it (or 1.2 laps of it), I got to see what its all about and its a cool race, I'm just not sure its what I like.
- I think I'm more of a 'house' cat - as a runner I preferred tracks (especially indoor) to cross country. I hate open water swimming. I don't like 'hard man' battle vs the elements races. I just want as many variables as possible eliminated. Other riders like other things.
- I think this is my first DNF in cycling. My mother was very disappointed in me, "we didn't raise a quitter". I don't think she gets it.

aaronmcd

On my training ride waaay off the back, mostly I just slogged through the tar and gravel and it eventually worked it's way out enough to free up the wheel. But once it was really bad and I could hardly ride. Stopped, wheel spun fine, got back on and it was fine. I think what was happening was the tire turning while riding was holding a rock in place, and stopping freed the rocks to drop off. I haven't looked at my bike today. I should hose it off before the asphalt cements everything and hope most of the tar comes off.

miyata man

You do all the really fun races and the reports are always enjoyable afterwards.

Asphalt remover for cars should clean the rims off easily and, if judiciously applied, the tires as well. Highly unlikely solution is 50 psi in tires and freeze them wheel and all. Reinflate to 120psi or so and it should be easy to remove with a putty knife in a solid non-tarry manner.

Heat/friction are the enemy of removing it. Dab a bit on and let it sit instead of trying to scrub. Make sure to wash everything in hot soapy water immediately afterwards.

scheibo

thanks. i was going to try heat and friction, so i was clearly about the head down the wrong path!

im still trying to figure out exactly why i was slowed to a stop in the exact same place (the first really steep ramp) on both laps. working theory: up until that point the wheel was turning fast enough that it could kind of shed enough of the gunk to keep going, but when it slowed down it could no longer fling off the crud and so it jammed? not sure, i dont really have experience with this kind of thing to know if thats a realistic scenario