Upgrading from 5 to 4 before 10 races
04-19-17, 04:24 PM
#77
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True, I would expect someone 80% of a racer to be better than someone who is on only 75% of one. Or do the more complete racers go slower?
04-19-17, 04:34 PM
#78
Blast from the Past
04-19-17, 04:41 PM
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SoCal is into speed which is why we use numbers. It is becoming clear that the letters help with tactics.
04-19-17, 04:44 PM
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04-19-17, 05:29 PM
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"Medical grade" drugs are as one would expect considerably well regulated. By which I mean all facets are controlled to produce a safe and clean product free from outside contamination. Let's not turn this into a drug thread.
04-19-17, 05:30 PM
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04-19-17, 05:35 PM
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Ten races at Cat 5 serve two purposes. One is having racers have some racing experience before subjecting them to higher level racing. The other is having a cash cow for race promoters.
Both serve useful purposes in amateur racing.
Now, given that you must race your 10 Cat 5 races I think that you should not concern yourself with winning as who cares about winning a Cat 5 race. Instead you should be working on skills. Say you are such a strong sprinter that you can do what you want and win. What did you learn doing that? Instead, work on getting and holding the "best" wheel, or in this case second best wheel, in the sprint. That is just one example.
Both serve useful purposes in amateur racing.
Now, given that you must race your 10 Cat 5 races I think that you should not concern yourself with winning as who cares about winning a Cat 5 race. Instead you should be working on skills. Say you are such a strong sprinter that you can do what you want and win. What did you learn doing that? Instead, work on getting and holding the "best" wheel, or in this case second best wheel, in the sprint. That is just one example.
04-19-17, 06:12 PM
#86
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Ten races at Cat 5 serve two purposes. One is having racers have some racing experience before subjecting them to higher level racing. The other is having a cash cow for race promoters.
Both serve useful purposes in amateur racing.
Now, given that you must race your 10 Cat 5 races I think that you should not concern yourself with winning as who cares about winning a Cat 5 race. Instead you should be working on skills. Say you are such a strong sprinter that you can do what you want and win. What did you learn doing that? Instead, work on getting and holding the "best" wheel, or in this case second best wheel, in the sprint. That is just one example.
Both serve useful purposes in amateur racing.
Now, given that you must race your 10 Cat 5 races I think that you should not concern yourself with winning as who cares about winning a Cat 5 race. Instead you should be working on skills. Say you are such a strong sprinter that you can do what you want and win. What did you learn doing that? Instead, work on getting and holding the "best" wheel, or in this case second best wheel, in the sprint. That is just one example.
Now that I have done a single B race yesterday (right after the C race which I also did), the idea of going back to only doing only the C race makes my brain hurt. The C race is a mix of 5s and 4s.
Here's a slightly related question: do my two podiums while Cat 5 count for upgrade towards Cat 3? When I go to the USAcycling website and look at my points, it does have those points listed. I had thought they did not count. But they are seeming to be present on my account as my points as a 4.
04-19-17, 06:32 PM
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There are upgrade points and ranking points. GC answered the first one correctly. The second can be found here
It would appear you are seeing and misattributing ranking points as upgrade points. To save time I copied the pertinent text.
It would appear you are seeing and misattributing ranking points as upgrade points. To save time I copied the pertinent text.
Q: I JUST RECEIVED MY UPGRADE, WILL MY RANKING CARRY OVER TO MY NEW CATEGORY?
A: Yes, because the new system looks at who you race against and not which races you are racing, there’s no reason to reset rankings each time you upgrade.
A: Yes, because the new system looks at who you race against and not which races you are racing, there’s no reason to reset rankings each time you upgrade.
04-19-17, 06:41 PM
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The USAC web site does show estimated upgrade points now, but they are not official in any way, and it wouldn't surprise me if it showed those points. But the upgrade coordinator will disregard them.
04-19-17, 07:09 PM
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USAC upgrade point system is a guideline and they do whatever they think is best. Cat 4,3,2 are handled locally. There are regional unwritten rules applied all the time. Esp in juniors and those not racing all the time in the USA.
For example last year's 14 year old SoCal WP123 crit champion was not allowed to upgrade to a 2 even though she had the points and won the Championship. At age 15 I think they bumped her to a Cat 1 - as they should have, as we don't have a more winning SoCal female crit rider than this 14 year old - go figure. Cat 2 for her was pointless, just the local upgrade person didn't think 14 year olds should be Cat 1.
Cat 1, is supposed to be Colorado Springs. I know several (including son) that got a 1 without USAC points being checked, just a phone call by the right person and right justification and it happened in a day. Seems to me the Cat 1 (and Pro) can be awarded at any time if they think the rider is ready.
I know others that went from junior Cat 1 points (I think they were a 1, they certainly had the points) to Cat 3 after turning U19 (there are lots of reasons for that if the kid likes money). USAC point system does not capture all cycling ability and they seem pretty reasonable about it (to me) when you call them.
Basic point is it is a guideline.
For example last year's 14 year old SoCal WP123 crit champion was not allowed to upgrade to a 2 even though she had the points and won the Championship. At age 15 I think they bumped her to a Cat 1 - as they should have, as we don't have a more winning SoCal female crit rider than this 14 year old - go figure. Cat 2 for her was pointless, just the local upgrade person didn't think 14 year olds should be Cat 1.
Cat 1, is supposed to be Colorado Springs. I know several (including son) that got a 1 without USAC points being checked, just a phone call by the right person and right justification and it happened in a day. Seems to me the Cat 1 (and Pro) can be awarded at any time if they think the rider is ready.
I know others that went from junior Cat 1 points (I think they were a 1, they certainly had the points) to Cat 3 after turning U19 (there are lots of reasons for that if the kid likes money). USAC point system does not capture all cycling ability and they seem pretty reasonable about it (to me) when you call them.
Basic point is it is a guideline.
Last edited by Doge; 04-19-17 at 07:13 PM.
04-19-17, 07:16 PM
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Many juniors are in the USAC Development program and some are Cat 3, Cat 2 and go race Europe and get no upgrade points. When the time is right - they ask.
OR some (see Muretta Cat 3) stay or down grade to win money. A Cat 3 can pocket $3K at Tulsa Tough. That is a lot of money for a Cat 1 kid that chooses to downgrade to a 3. The rules allow that for juniors, not adults.
Others (adults) raced in Europe and move to the USA and ask, and get the upgrade.
Edit Part II
Juniors have no mandatory upgrade requirements. So they can sit as a Cat 3 and have 3X the points needed. While I don't think that is best for learning to race, as a kid they can go to many Cat 3 races and clean up and get all the Cat 3 cash pretty reliably. Choosing to do Cat 1, while it pays more is much riskier. Much easier to win Cat 3, that say get 8th in Cat 1.
Last edited by Doge; 04-19-17 at 07:23 PM.
04-19-17, 07:44 PM
#93
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Interesting, in the Fort Worth weeknight crit, a Cat 5 can do the C race and the B race. A Cat 4 can do the B, C, or A. So the only thing a Cat 5 cannot do is the A race.
04-19-17, 08:31 PM
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04-20-17, 05:36 AM
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His lbs is paying him to race. Isn't that good enough? You want to think bigger?
04-20-17, 06:25 AM
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04-20-17, 08:28 AM
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To be honest, after the abuse he got for a year of wavering, I'm pleasantly surprised that the stuck it out to keep coming back and did start racing.
