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Old 04-28-17, 08:44 AM   #1
Radish_legs
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When is the bike the limiter?

What are you thoughts of when someone ought to upgrade to a higher performance bike? I'm just racing crits so it may not matter as much.

I'm riding a 2015 Cdale Supersix Evo, 105 group (not hi-mod). It's not aero, it's kind of heavy. Retailed for about 2k. I have FLO 60s on it.

I'm still putting all my financial investments into my motor (training, smart trainer, xert). But just curious about what different you guys think a true racing bike would make. And when if ever to pull that trigger.
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Old 04-28-17, 08:48 AM   #2
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For crits the difference in bike performance is inches. Maybe two or three. So unless you're getting nipped at the line it doesn't make much of a difference.
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Old 04-28-17, 08:50 AM   #3
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Years ago I helped support a race team. Of course they all wanted better bikes and or upgrades. Our rule was pretty straight forward, when someone was within smelling distance of the podium, then spending to get them on was warranted. OTOH - there's no reason to spend even a dime to move someone from 15th to 12th place.

So, the same advice to you. Hold off on spending until you're finishing high in the rankings, or within small time gaps behind those on the podium. If you're 5 minutes off the front, saving 2 of them is meaningless.
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Old 04-28-17, 08:57 AM   #4
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If I'm challenging for podiums in the B crits against Cat 3s, is that a high enough level I should consider it, from a bike performance standpoint?

I'm super cheap. I don't want to spend anymore money. But it's a nagging thought when I see guys on sleek aero machines.
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Old 04-28-17, 09:07 AM   #5
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I think your bike is fine ... if you're worried about aero, make sure you clean up most of the lower or no cost items first. Work on sprinting with your body down and out of the wind, race in a skin suit, consider an aero helmet, and so on.
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Old 04-28-17, 09:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
What are you thoughts of when someone ought to upgrade to a higher performance bike? I'm just racing crits so it may not matter as much.

I'm riding a 2015 Cdale Supersix Evo, 105 group (not hi-mod). It's not aero, it's kind of heavy. Retailed for about 2k. I have FLO 60s on it.

I'm still putting all my financial investments into my motor (training, smart trainer, xert). But just curious about what different you guys think a true racing bike would make. And when if ever to pull that trigger.
Your bike's nicer than mine and I'm on my 5th year of racing. Ride it til it breaks or you're a cat 1/2, whichever comes first, that's my motto. Unless you have money to burn, then do whatever the heck you want I suppose.
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Old 04-28-17, 09:10 AM   #7
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to the OP

Read this

It's one of my favorite stories about the importance of equipment.
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Old 04-28-17, 09:27 AM   #8
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It's a nagging thought
No, the rebuttals to you form a nagging thought.

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Old 04-28-17, 09:30 AM   #9
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to the OP

Read this

It's one of my favorite stories about the importance of equipment.
dang, what kind of gearing did he have to put in high speeds? A guy on one of our fast group rides sometimes does it on his hardtail. It's super annoying.
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Old 04-28-17, 09:39 AM   #10
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to the OP

Read this

It's one of my favorite stories about the importance of equipment.

I was just about to go search for the same story.
You saved me the time.
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Old 04-28-17, 09:51 AM   #11
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For what you do, the answer to your question is NEVER. The bike is not the limiter.

Now, if you were showing up to TTs on a regular road bike without aero wheels or aerobars and everyone else was on a TT bike, then yes, the bike could be a limiter. But for RRs and Crits, it isn't holding you back at all. Even adding aero wheels to your Evo will have limited effect when in the field.

We can all cite countless stories of guys winning race after race after race on basic equipment. We can also all cite countless stories of guys losing race after race after race on the best equipment.

By the way, lots of guys have won lots of races on the bike you are racing.
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Old 04-28-17, 10:06 AM   #12
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Also, you don't need to start a new thread for everything you want to discuss. This would fit find under the Racer Tech thread.
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Old 04-28-17, 10:33 AM   #13
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I wish I had a bike as nice as that one, not to mention the wheels.

If you really don't want to spend any money, then don't. If you feel like treating yourself with some 'upgrades' then do so. It's all good.
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Old 04-28-17, 10:50 AM   #14
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Spend as much as you are willing to lose in a crash.
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Old 04-28-17, 11:11 AM   #15
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I know a guy who is a 2 that races on an old steel frame bike..downtube shifters and all. The bike isn't holding him back.
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Old 04-28-17, 11:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
What are you thoughts of when someone ought to upgrade to a higher performance bike? I'm just racing crits so it may not matter as much.

I'm riding a 2015 Cdale Supersix Evo, 105 group (not hi-mod). It's not aero, it's kind of heavy. Retailed for about 2k. I have FLO 60s on it.

I'm still putting all my financial investments into my motor (training, smart trainer, xert). But just curious about what different you guys think a true racing bike would make. And when if ever to pull that trigger.
That bike is not holding you back.
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Old 04-28-17, 11:28 AM   #17
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^ C'mon now. Did you not see the part that it's not hi-mod?
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Old 04-28-17, 11:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
If I'm challenging for podiums in the B crits against Cat 3s, is that a high enough level I should consider it, from a bike performance standpoint?

I'm super cheap. I don't want to spend anymore money. But it's a nagging thought when I see guys on sleek aero machines.
There's your answer. Ride the bike you can afford to crash. (Yes, sanguine. But grounded on experience as a racer. Yes, my experience as a racer was many decades ago. The speeds in Cat 3 races are, I am sure, are a lot higher, but are the riders any more skilled?)

Ben
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Old 04-28-17, 12:13 PM   #19
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Yeah it kinda boggles my mind, some guys racing 8k bikes in a C crit. I would cry if I crashed my Venge or somesuch.


Sorry for starting a new thread. I thought that since I am now a racer, I shouldn't deign to discuss such things with non-racers.
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Old 04-28-17, 02:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
What are you thoughts of when someone ought to upgrade to a higher performance bike? I'm just racing crits so it may not matter as much.

I'm riding a 2015 Cdale Supersix Evo, 105 group (not hi-mod). It's not aero, it's kind of heavy. Retailed for about 2k. I have FLO 60s on it.

I'm still putting all my financial investments into my motor (training, smart trainer, xert). But just curious about what different you guys think a true racing bike would make. And when if ever to pull that trigger.
When is the bike the limiter?

When you flat, or your chain breaks.
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Old 04-28-17, 02:37 PM   #21
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Old 04-28-17, 04:10 PM   #22
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The bike is the limiter when it ceases functioning correctly.

If it's a legal, functioning road bike, it's extremely doubtful it's the limiter.

It'd take a well-functioning 2002 Trek 5200 with 9 speed ultegra over a 2016 madone with a dead DI2 battery!

My current bike has 105. Not a limiter by any stretch.
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Old 04-28-17, 04:15 PM   #23
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If I'm challenging for podiums in the B crits against Cat 3s, is that a high enough level I should consider it, from a bike performance standpoint?

I'm super cheap. I don't want to spend anymore money. But it's a nagging thought when I see guys on sleek aero machines.

For the last three years I'd raced shallow-section al wheels. I lost a number of sprints by half a wheel or less. So much so that last summer after three straight losses it started really getting into my head so this winter I bought a pair of 58mm rims and built up a new pair of race wheels.

This year, I've gotten fourth in two different group sprints (after missing the break) and won one 5 man sprint by two bike lengths. So. Difference? No difference?

I understand the nagging thoughts, but in all practical applications, there's a lot of other stuff you need to get right before it matters, if it matters to begin with (not that I can tell, but I like to hedge my bets as much as the next guy).
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Old 04-28-17, 04:50 PM   #24
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Well, now that you are physically strong enough to start racing and challenging the politics of upgrading, the sponsors should start pouring in. So I don't think you should ever pay for a bike again. Unless your sponsors are not providing you with the necessary equipment, and are holding you back.
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Old 04-28-17, 04:50 PM   #25
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The bike is the limiter when it ceases functioning correctly.

If it's a legal, functioning road bike, it's extremely doubtful it's the limiter.

It'd take a well-functioning 2002 Trek 5200 with 9 speed ultegra over a 2016 madone with a dead DI2 battery!

My current bike has 105. Not a limiter by any stretch.
My backup bike is a 90s trek - 2300 I think? 8 speed. Partly carbon. Heavy and feels really sluggish. Had to race it when I broke my chainstay, and holy crap that sucked. It was definitely a limiter. Not sure how the physics works out but it feels like an extra 30 watts just to move that boat around.
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