Snuffleupagus

Did my first roadrace today, was feeling good, and a little too cocky for the first 16 mile lap, up towards the front of the peloton for the whole deal, and leading for several miles (dumb, rookie mistake, I blew up on the last 16, and ended up getting dropped) and for the first lap the race was averaging ~24-25mph. After I got dropped I was busting my ass without a draft at around 20-22, leaving with a final average of 22.5 for the race.

The race profile is here:

https://www.crosscreekcyclingclub.org...achersLoop.pdf

Now, I probably would have been fine to hang with the peloton if I hadn't have been peadling my 6'2 200lb butt into the wind, and woulda just sucked wheel for the first 30 miles...but, live and learn. I was just amazed at how fast we were going, I believe the guy who won CAT 5 averaged nearly 26mph! I mean, dang, is that about average?

slvoid

Sounds about average. I'll just hang out in the back till the last 5 miles or so. Then move my way up to the front, then draft for the last km or so to build up my energy and get ready to break off for the final sprint. Cat 5 might actually be faster than cat 4, since cat 4 goes longer distances.

Snuffleupagus

Well yes, that would appear to be the smart way to do it Next time I'll conserve my precious glycogen until the closing miles.

I'm used to foot races and MTB races where drafting isn't really a concern, and you win by hammering hard intially then getting into a fast cruise for the remainder. This, obviously isn't the way to do it on the road

daytonian

I just got back from my first Cat 5 crit and can tell you that my average of 22 mph was not enough to hang with the cool kids. But there again, first crit and I'm doing everthing you guys said not to do. Biggest mistake, not staying in the draft at all times and when the front breaks you gotta go now not when you "get around to it". I thought speeds would be slower and thought mid race "dude, am I in the right race, these guys are really organized and fast". One guy wrecked second lap and hit the pavement sooooo friggin hard. Made me think twice about carbon fiber and crits. Anyway it was fun and to answer you question my 22mph probably needed to be 23.5 to stay in the pack comfortably.

my58vw

Cat 5 -- well 22 MPH average is definitly not fast enough to hang in a crit around here, you are lucky to hang in the pack at a 24 MPH average. Today a 4/5 crit we are talking a 27 MPH average to just hang...

Ofcourse you all know what my saying is about average speeds in crits, it really depends on the course...

koreansteve

sorry to revive a dying topic, but i want to get into racing (college and Cat 5) next spring and these speeds absolutely amaze me. Here's my question:

How fast do you Cat5 4/5 guys average solo over 25-50 mile rides?

I've been riding for a year, but i want to really start training (5-6 days a week if possible) so i can at least hang with the peloton in my first races in 2006. I appreciate it.
(btw, i usually average around 17-18.2 when i ride solo on a course of continuous hills and i'm just trying to figure out fast i need to work up to in order to stay competitive in my first races).

Thanks.

Voodoo76

koreansteve, dont take this the wrong way but the question you asked is off base, especially for Criterium racing. Average speed is of minor relevance, when a race is simply rolling along you get significant draft advantage. The ability to change speed (accelerate) is much more significant and is typically what is lacking in new racers.

Train to go very fast for short periods of time, train to be capable of repeated accelerations, and you will not get dropped.

koreansteve

Thank you very much Voodoo. I've never raced, so i appreciate your input. I figure with drafting i'd get at least 30% more efficiency, so technically i'll be near 25-26 mph when i'd normally ride a 18.2 solo.
I've been riding for distance lately as i want to complete a century by years end, but i think i'll start race training now and add short sprints into my training.

Watching the Tour for the past 3 weeks has given me a whole new appreciation for acceleration and sprinting.
Do/Did most of you find the accelerations to be the most trying part of racing initially, as opposed to high constant tempo?

The Octopus 

FWIW, I did my first crit. on Saturday (23.5mph average speed in the 4/5/citizen combined field) and my first individual time trial on Sunday (22.9mph average over a 16.75-mile rolling course with negligible wind). But, as Voodoo sez, the average isn't as important as the pulse and tempo of the race. I can sit in forever at a high rate of speed (for example, 18.7mph average over 24 hours; 20.7mph average on the second of two, back-to-back 160-mile days), but having the gas to spin up to 30+mph, sometimes out of the draft, is a whole 'nother ball of wax. To prepare for crit. racing, I'd recommend developing a solid aerobic base and then, with that in place, adding interval training to raise your anaerobic threshold and to build cycle-specific strength. Also key is to find some training rides that racers frequent. They won't be as hardcore as a race environment, but you'll get the feel for what an aggressive ride is like. You'll also get some critical insights into bike handling that are necessary to survive the close-quarters of a race. Good luck and have fun!

LapDog

Cat 5 doesn't mean slower. It maybe faster (and dumber?) than cat 4, and sometimes 3. I've seen Cat 3 races in which no one wanted to push the pace so they pedaled along like a bunch of old ladies until the last two laps...

Cat 5 racers don't remember that the person who wins the race isn't the fastest, but the first one across the finish line. Second, the concept of tactics is not as ingrained as the other categories.

So average speeds around 25-26 mph is common...

my58vw

To a point...

I rode a cat 4/5 race like I said above where the pace was 27 MPH average. The 27 MPH pace is not the hard part at all, it is the dummies who wanted to drop down to 18 - 20 MPH for a not so tight corner than accelarate out to 30 MPH that made it hard. I got shelled about about 6 or so times doing that. I have never been dropped in a crit for speed, but for acceration.

Now put me in a pro field and watch me get dropped on a long straight at 35 MPH...

Bandusa

Why are there so many Crits and not as many road races?

bigdraft

While I'm not sure about other areas of the country, but here in S. Cal getting the necessary road closures are pretty difficult, both cost and permits make it very difficult for very many RRs to happen here.

FatguyRacer

Road races can be logistical nightmares. It takes alot of effort to promote one vs the industrial park crit. For one thing, getting a permit to run on open roads is not easy. Unless you can demonstrate how your race will not unduly inconvienience the locals constituancy. On top of that you'll need the help of the local constabulatory to help you regulate non-race traffic. Industrial Parks are easier to stage crits and circuit races since they're ghost towns on Sundays. I ran a 5 week spring training race series for 5 years that had A, B & C race and only needed me to register riders, and 3 guys to work the corners. Very minimal effort to do it. More reward for less effort. Our club made good money on those because there was no one to pay off except the officals.

roadwarrior

Versus in a place like Belgium where 14 year old kids will race 50-70k over open roads with rolling road closures and people are happy about it.
Which is why it is so hard for US riders to succeed overseas in comparison to how well they do here. And why many go to Europe to learn how to race.

timmhaan

in the US the most important thing is that cars have access to the roads. that's king above any other consideration. if it impacts even one old lady going to get groceries it's probably not going to happen. can you tell i'm bitter? that's why road races are so rare here.