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Old 08-16-05, 08:32 PM   #1
531Aussie
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though pretty much all of the top pro teams are back on tubulars after trying (or sponsors MAKING them use) clinchers a couple of years back.

Are tubulars noticeably faster? It's been 12 years since I had my last rack bike with tubulars, so I've forgotten.

one older rider around here (Yes Ed, it's Kennedy ), a former pro 200m outdoor world record holder, strongly recommends only racing on "singles", so......

thanks
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Old 08-16-05, 08:42 PM   #2
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JFK loves his sew-ups.

My training/ride-to-race wheels would be clinchers, serious race wheels were tubs.
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Old 08-16-05, 08:58 PM   #3
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you reckon there's a real speed difference, or they only should be "technically" faster? In other words, stuff all difference, they just feel faster?

More that 0.5kmh at 40kmh?
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Old 08-16-05, 09:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 531Aussie
you reckon there's a real speed difference, or only a theoretically technical one? In other words, stuff all difference, they just feel faster?

More that 0.5kmh at 40kmh?

Feel and sound faster. But probably aren't.

Maybe I'm going faster coz I unloaded $130 each for Vittoria Dry Roads.
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Old 08-16-05, 09:32 PM   #5
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The thing I like about tubular is if the go flat at speed you don't get that wiggle feeling. Would save for racing as if you flat your out no matter what you have.
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Old 08-16-05, 09:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed073
Feel and sound faster. But probably aren't.
Maybe I'm going faster coz I unloaded $130 each for Vittoria Dry Roads.
like I keep saying (boringly ), the Vittoria Open Corsa KS I had was AMAZING!!!! But I just can't afford them.
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Old 08-16-05, 10:03 PM   #7
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tubies only - yes for me.

faster - ?

they ride great and feel fast, does that count?
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Old 08-16-05, 10:21 PM   #8
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If I had the cash to buy the wheelset-yes, they certainly do feel more trustworthy if only in my head.
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Old 08-17-05, 02:36 AM   #9
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I'll usually use clinchers on road-races and tubulars on crits. My tubular wheels weighs 1950gm with tyres+cassette and are about 2lbs lighter than my clinchers. The difference in response time in transitioning from straight-line to full-cornering is incredible. It's telepathic! And making mid-corner corrections to avoid wrecks or to jump over a body is much quicker and easier.

I did an informal coast-down measurement from 15mph and the tubulars rolled 60ft farther, so they also have less rolling resistance as well. But I don't think that affects my straight-line speed much since the draft is worth much more than that.

Also when you get a flat under maximum-cornering at 35mph, tubulars don't lose as much control as clinchers...
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Old 08-17-05, 06:42 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
My tubular wheels weighs 1950gm with tyres+cassette and are about 2lbs lighter than my clinchers. (
Really!!!???

That is a huge difference. I assume you are comparing them to a descent clincher set?

The last two crits I did I saw one guy in each race roll a tubular and slide out into the curb. I understand they probably did not glue them properly but still it would not ever happen with a clincher. I don't know enough about them but they kind of freak me out. I rode a tubular set on a track bike many many years ago but a good friend of mine who knew what he was doing glued them on. I don't trust myself. I am thinking of getting a set for cross this year mainly because you can put very low pressure in them and still avoid flats and I won't be doing much high speed cornering in cross.
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Old 08-17-05, 08:23 AM   #11
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There used to be a suspension for rolled tubies...still the case? I've only raced on tubies and never had any roll. They're the ride for racing, that's for sure...IMHO more important than ultra low count spoken wheelsets, etc.. for mass start events.
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Old 08-17-05, 02:24 PM   #12
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"That is a huge difference. I assume you are comparing them to a descent clincher set?"

Most of the weight is in the rims and tyres where it makes the most difference in polar moment of inertia anyway. Don't forget to add the separate weight of a tube and rim-strip for clinchers. Here's what I use on my tubulars:

rim: FIR 280gm heat-treated 7000-series alloy rims (stronger and lighter than Sun M19a-II I used to use)
tyres: Panaracer Rapide 180gm or previous generation kevlar Tourguard slicks 200gm
Nuke Proof carbon-fibre hubs: 275gm/pr
Ringlé CamTwist titanium skewers: 80gm/pr
DT Revolution 2.0/1.5mm spokes & alloy nipples: 250gm both wheels
Regina 7-speed alloy freewheel: 275gm
hollow bushingless chain... not sure brand... Regina?

"The last two crits I did I saw one guy in each race roll a tubular and slide out into the curb. I understand they probably did not glue them properly but still it would not ever happen with a clincher."

Clincher's do get pinched flats in bumps or pinched tube. I don't have the relative failure rates of tubulars vs. clinchers in races though. However, flat tubulars are more controllable than flat clinchers. Glue is easy, you just have to make sure you remove as much of the old glue as possible, it contaminates the new layer. Also I don't like the old-tech glues, I prefer 3M Fastak weatherstripping adhesive #08031 or #08033. Sometimes you have to cut the tyre off the rim to remove it...
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Old 08-17-05, 05:32 PM   #13
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I race on tubulars with a pair of Zipp 303. What more can you ask? I can pump the psi to 140 and the tires still handle rough pavement very well. The only way you can get a pair of sub 1300g wheels is to go carbon tubular.
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Old 08-19-05, 06:30 PM   #14
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tubulars are good only bad thing is fixing flat. they are lighter, less rolling resistance and more safe when you get a flat-you can ride longer with out loosing control
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Old 08-22-05, 05:35 PM   #15
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Actually, check out RolfPrima.com. Their Elan Aeros weigh in at 1295g/set (clincher).
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Old 08-22-05, 06:44 PM   #16
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My tubular wheels in bare configuration comes to hubs 275gm+ spokes 250gm + rims 560gm = 1085gm. Still 1/2-lb lighter than the RolfPrima ElanAero and they only cost me $150 to build. Add two tyres, two rim-strips, two tubes, two QR skewers and a cassette and you're well over 1-lb heavier than my set of tubulars. Not to mention I get 24/28 spokes for better lateral support of the rim. Tall aero rims have to be so vertically stiff in order to use fewer spokes that they give a very harsh, non-compliant ride over bumps. Try max-speed downhills at 45-50mph with maximum-braking and max-cornering over bumps on a set of those RolfPrimas and what's left of your numb hands will be white-knuckles from shear terror..

The idea is you take ANY clincher wheel-set, and shave off the hook beads on the rims and remove the beads from the tyres and you'll always have a lighter set of wheels.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 08-23-05 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 08-23-05, 10:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmckenna
The last two crits I did I saw one guy in each race roll a tubular and slide out into the curb. I understand they probably did not glue them properly but still it would not ever happen with a clincher.
So if a guy puts a carbon bar set on with a giant breaker bar at 400ft/lbs....there's a problem with the bars?

I once slid my bike across an entire crit field when my front clincher went *poof* (instaflat). Kept it upright and barely missed the curb. Guess what I use in races now?

You can screw up installation on a lot of different parts with bad results. It's not the parts fault.
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