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Old 02-09-06, 12:45 PM   #1
53x11
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All Canondale frame owners be careful of a on going Crack in the right rear dropout

all cannondale road frame owners, please examine your frame in the area of right rear dropout. I had it cracking in the same exact area with 6 month time frame on two separate frames. (one was a warranty replacement)

Please see attachd photo of the crack.
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File Type: jpg caad4_crack.jpg (85.2 KB, 301 views)
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Old 02-12-06, 11:26 AM   #2
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so, i was wondering, did anyone found anything similar?
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Old 02-12-06, 11:30 AM   #3
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What model frame is that?
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Old 02-12-06, 04:13 PM   #4
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On the 3.0 frames with the cantilevered rear-dropouts, cracks were also common where it was welded to the tubing.

On your frame, yes, it's most likely due to the thinner width to accomodate the RD hanger. They could've beefed up that side significantly by not having the cut-out hole in the dropout. A solid aluminium dropout would've been much stronger without adding much weight at all...
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Old 02-13-06, 09:13 AM   #5
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hey man... i've been riding and racing cannondales along with my team mates, and four other teams i know of in Colorado...and i've not heard of this.

was your frame replaced for the same reason...??, it's hard to tell from the pic, if it's just the paint cracking or the dropout...

maybe you're just a beast
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Old 02-13-06, 11:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
What model frame is that?
This is a 2004 CAAD4 , and it is a second waranty replacament frame, first one cracked in exactly same spot.

Cannondale makes right rear dropout thinner to accomodate for the derauleur hanger. I think it is a poor engeneering, afterall thats where mst of the stress is.
It is such a hassle, cause every time i have to change BB, headset (all other stuff is kinda easy)..


No , it is not just a paint chipping away..
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Old 02-13-06, 12:18 PM   #7
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CAAD4. They were still making those in 2004?
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Old 02-13-06, 12:26 PM   #8
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FWIW, I think Cdale must have realized it was a problem and changed the design, as the right rear dropout was solid on my CAAD7 and is solid on my CAAD8. Sorry about the frames.
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Old 02-13-06, 12:51 PM   #9
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ok, but I'm definately sure its solid on my CAAD8, as i'm looking at it right now
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Old 02-13-06, 12:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
FWIW, I think Cdale must have realized it was a problem and changed the design, as the right rear dropout was solid on my CAAD7 and is solid on my CAAD8. Sorry about the frames.
naah, nothing changed, look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7215310532

thats why cannondale will never become colnago and FORD or CHEVY will never be BMW or Mercedes, somehow stuff like that never chages in engeneers minds over here... i send them detailed email 1.5 years ago, who cares!
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Old 02-13-06, 01:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 53x11
thats why cannondale will never become colnago and FORD or CHEVY will never be BMW or Mercedes, somehow stuff like that never chages in engeneers minds over here... i send them detailed email 1.5 years ago, who cares!
they could have changed the thickness, or the alloy, or the welding method. Ask them for a new frame, they might give you a CAAD8.

You've never owned a BMW or Mercedes or you wouldn't quote them for quality, they are near the bottom of the list for long term reliability. >80% of these cars are leased, so they are designed for 3 years. My Bimmer was a total POS.
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Old 02-13-06, 04:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DocRay
they could have changed the thickness, or the alloy, or the welding method. Ask them for a new frame, they might give you a CAAD8.

You've never owned a BMW or Mercedes or you wouldn't quote them for quality, they are near the bottom of the list for long term reliability. >80% of these cars are leased, so they are designed for 3 years. My Bimmer was a total POS.
i'm on my 3rd bmw and all 3 have been bulletproof
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Old 02-13-06, 07:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by DocRay
they could have changed the thickness, or the alloy, or the welding method. Ask them for a new frame, they might give you a CAAD8.

You've never owned a BMW or Mercedes or you wouldn't quote them for quality, they are near the bottom of the list for long term reliability. >80% of these cars are leased, so they are designed for 3 years. My Bimmer was a total POS.
how the hell do you know what i drive now and what i hav driven in the past??

What i'm referring to here is the parallel logic of why GM and generally all US car manufacturers are in the deep **** right now. Little things like that get constantly overlooked and not taken care of..
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Old 02-13-06, 11:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x11
how the hell do you know what i drive now and what i hav driven in the past??

What i'm referring to here is the parallel logic of why GM and generally all US car manufacturers are in the deep **** right now. Little things like that get constantly overlooked and not taken care of..
Ford and GMs quality has done nothing but improve in the past few decades. Its unwanted models and marketing, combined with competition from foreign automakers (TOYOTA) that has been slowly killing the big 3. Anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean much if you want to look at quality - looking at someonthing like JD Powers and see where Ford, Chevy, MB, and BMW all rank.

That said I'm a die-hard German car fan. I own one and haven't had any problems.

What was the Cannondale model in 2004 that came with a CAAD4?
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Old 02-14-06, 12:49 AM   #15
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evry time i talk t car mechanics they all say that american engeneered cars have same "cost cutting" parts in themwhich make them faster to brake, such as plastic radiators, and also they say in order to save money they use plastic whenewer possible..

What i dont understand is why GM engeneers (i'm sure they are as smart as Germans) having all the best computers and software around just cannot make a car even similar to lowest end German or Japaneese car? It's like a cuse or something. A friend of mine who was working in one of these plants said, right from the drawing board they start cutting costs, use plastic alot in the engine compartments etc.. it is a way of thinking, which is very very hard to change..

same attitute at cannondale engeneering dept.. that crack happens very often, they been notified 1.5 years sgo, but just too spupid to realize that right dropout needs to be as thick as left one... that "dont care" attitude ruins American manufacturing as a whole..

same way SRAM will never be as good as Shimano or Campagnolo.. despite their little red volvo wich will be riding around in the races..

and yes, that
caad4 frame was a scond replacemnt frame

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbhowat
Ford and GMs quality has done nothing but improve in the past few decades. Its unwanted models and marketing, combined with competition from foreign automakers (TOYOTA) that has been slowly killing the big 3. Anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean much if you want to look at quality - looking at someonthing like JD Powers and see where Ford, Chevy, MB, and BMW all rank.

That said I'm a die-hard German car fan. I own one and haven't had any problems.

What was the Cannondale model in 2004 that came with a CAAD4?
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Old 02-14-06, 03:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x11
This is a 2004 CAAD4 , and it is a second waranty replacament frame, first one cracked in exactly same spot.

Cannondale makes right rear dropout thinner to accomodate for the derauleur hanger. I think it is a poor engeneering, afterall thats where mst of the stress is.
It is such a hassle, cause every time i have to change BB, headset (all other stuff is kinda easy)..


No , it is not just a paint chipping away..
hmmmm...not doubting you at all...but I have a CAAD 4 that I rode for five years (with 48,000 miles on it) that's now my trainer/rain bike. No problems...since then, a CAAD7, an original Six/13 and now the new Six/13. Since I work in a bike shop, the bike's looked at often. No problems. With time restrictions, these frames logged about seven to eight thousand miles in a year each. The reason I hung on to the CAAD4 is it's a bit more stout than the 7 or the Six/13's and can do better in the trainer.

I've never seen a Cannondale come in for any warranty issue other than a bus that was not attached correctly that allowed water into the frame, started a small interior rust bubble. They replaced the frame in a week.

Sorry you had a problem...

on cars...I am on my sixth consecutive Pontiac. Loved every one. Never had a nickle's worth of trouble...only work was normal maintenance. My wife drives a Grand Prix. No sweat.

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Old 02-14-06, 06:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x11
evry time i talk t car mechanics they all say that american engeneered cars have same "cost cutting" parts in themwhich make them faster to brake, such as plastic radiators, and also they say in order to save money they use plastic whenewer possible..

What i dont understand is why GM engeneers (i'm sure they are as smart as Germans) having all the best computers and software around just cannot make a car even similar to lowest end German or Japaneese car? It's like a cuse or something. A friend of mine who was working in one of these plants said, right from the drawing board they start cutting costs, use plastic alot in the engine compartments etc.. it is a way of thinking, which is very very hard to change..

same attitute at cannondale engeneering dept.. that crack happens very often, they been notified 1.5 years sgo, but just too spupid to realize that right dropout needs to be as thick as left one... that "dont care" attitude ruins American manufacturing as a whole..

same way SRAM will never be as good as Shimano or Campagnolo.. despite their little red volvo wich will be riding around in the races..

and yes, that
caad4 frame was a scond replacemnt frame

1. I've worked on cars my whole life, including several years in a performance shop building (among other things) custom import motors (Hondas, Datsun/Nissan, BMW, Volkswagen - from the ground up). Please tell me which car has a plastic radiator. I'd like to know - seriously. I think if they COULD make a plastic that could stand up to the heat of coolant from the engine (which i'm sure actually does exist) it would cost a HELL of a lot MORE than a steel / or aluminum radiator and would probably do a worse job. That said, while it would do a worse job at dissipating heat, it would likely be a lot more resistant to puncture or corrosion leaks that occur in metal radiators.

2. I don't know either why GM and Ford can't make cars that are as good as the German cars (good being subjective here and quality and reliability are a small part of that only). Like I said, I drive a German car, my father drives a German car, my uncle is a German car nut (he as (besides a lot of dough) 911's from nearly every era including a late model 911 GT3, has owned several BMWs, and currently has a Mercedes as his daily driver). I agree with you that German cars are great. I had nothing but trouble with my GMC from the time my parents had ti to when i inherited it. So I guess I agree with you there. However, this comment about plastic in the engine bay BOGGLES MY MIND! Have you taken a look under the hood of a BMW, VW, Audi, or M-B made in the last 5 years or so? There is plastic EVERYWHERE. EVERYWHERE! Why? In many cases they actually help direct the air flow to areas that need it, keep your motor clean, and insulate other components from engine heat (at least to a degree). The days of muscle cars just having the block sitting right there hovering over the ground are gone, sorry. Look at the bottom of (I know off-hand) a Volkswagen GTI or many M-B's and you'll see plastic paneling all over the bottom side of the car - its light and it helps create a smooth flow of air underneath the car - probably one of the reasons why these German cars are so comfortable and capable at highway speeds over 120mph while many German and Japanese cars in the same range feel downright scary at 80mph.

3. You CANNOT expect cannondale to change the design of the CAAD4. Honestly - that frame is OLD. It like if a fan belt breaks on '73 Volkswagen and I expect VW to suddenly some out with some new replacement design that will allow for a wider/strong fan belt - despite the problem not existing on my late model VW Golf V6.
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Old 02-15-06, 12:51 PM   #18
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I can only state from my experience that BMWs and Mercedes are great cars for 3 yrs or 36,000 miles, but after that....there is a good reason why they devalue like rocks. Most lease (rent) these cars, because they can't afford them.

I know that when Toyota came to Ontario they shocked the parts suppliers by returning parts that did not meet spec, whereas Ford just used them. However, I have friends in the industry, and they will tell you that every engineer's hands are tied by management and accounting, and that Ford makes more profit per vehicle than Toyota. The Chair of Toyota made $960,000 last year, whereas GM, Ford, Chrysler chairs can make $20-$30M a year, when the companies are losing money. Toyota also has the highest R&D spending on any manufacturer. Most Us built engines are running on 50s era technolgy and pushrods.

I think the worst example of manufacturing mistakes was the decision by GM and Ford to stop priming the metal on three years of production from 95-98. Millions of cars had the paint flake off, but no one was ever compenstated.

However, this is NOT the case with Cannondale -this is a good company with a really solid reputation, and a lot of $$ invested in R&D. Have you contacted them again? They likely know of the problem in a rare cases, and will replace the frame. Give them a chance to fix it.
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Old 02-16-06, 09:13 PM   #19
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We have a toyota Tercel with 216,000 kms on it. All we've ever done to it was replace spark plugs, and spark plug wires, fluid changes and tires, and the timing. We also have a 2004 mazda 3 sport. 60,000kms, not a squeek.

My boss drove a $100,000 benz and returned it after 3 months cuz it kept doing crazy crap. His wife also had a Porshe Boxster for 2 years. She says she drove the loner VW way more than the boxster, cuz it really sucked. He drives a Yukon now (whatever) and she drives a Nissan 350z, and both are tickled pink.

I can believe the Cannondale story. My friend hates his. Although his frame still goes.

I have a kick ass Pinarello. No problems.
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Old 02-16-06, 09:44 PM   #20
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About cars, engineers, and quality.. cars are designed by the marketing dept., not the engineering dept. Anyone who has worked for a manufacturing company should know this. The boneheads in marketing come up with some great idea, and the engineers have to figure out how to make it for as cheap as possible. I think american car companies sell a car and then engineer it, germans engineer a car and then sell it.
For the record we have a '90 volvo (236,000 miles) and '93 toyota truck (254,000 miles).

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Old 02-16-06, 09:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocRay
I can only state from my experience that BMWs and Mercedes are great cars for 3 yrs or 36,000 miles, but after that....there is a good reason why they devalue like rocks. Most lease (rent) these cars, because they can't afford them.

I know that when Toyota came to Ontario they shocked the parts suppliers by returning parts that did not meet spec, whereas Ford just used them. However, I have friends in the industry, and they will tell you that every engineer's hands are tied by management and accounting, and that Ford makes more profit per vehicle than Toyota. The Chair of Toyota made $960,000 last year, whereas GM, Ford, Chrysler chairs can make $20-$30M a year, when the companies are losing money. Toyota also has the highest R&D spending on any manufacturer. Most Us built engines are running on 50s era technolgy and pushrods.

I think the worst example of manufacturing mistakes was the decision by GM and Ford to stop priming the metal on three years of production from 95-98. Millions of cars had the paint flake off, but no one was ever compenstated.

However, this is NOT the case with Cannondale -this is a good company with a really solid reputation, and a lot of $$ invested in R&D. Have you contacted them again? They likely know of the problem in a rare cases, and will replace the frame. Give them a chance to fix it.

Toyota has one of the highest profit margins of any company on the planet. They are pioneers of lean manufacturing.
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Old 02-16-06, 11:13 PM   #22
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For the record we have a '90 volvo (236,000 miles)
Sold a Volvo 740 last year with 390,000 km on it and it was still running OK at the time of sale. ($1500).
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Old 02-16-06, 11:21 PM   #23
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i just got my cannondale 06 catalog and i saw it, they still have the same rear dropouts for the r1000 feminine, r700 feminine. For the rest of the models, it seems that they have changed the dropout design already. Maybe cannondale thinks that women don't shift/pedal as hard as guys do... just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-16-06, 11:25 PM   #24
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We are a high volume Cannondale shop, and have yet to replace a frame for a crack in the dropout. I don't think its an issue for most people.

And by the way, nearly every mid 80's Dodge/Chrysler 6cyl has a plastic radiator.
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Old 02-17-06, 01:07 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seely
We are a high volume Cannondale shop, and have yet to replace a frame for a crack in the dropout. I don't think its an issue for most people.

And by the way, nearly every mid 80's Dodge/Chrysler 6cyl has a plastic radiator.
Haha, really? Jesus - well of all cars that i would expect to see that on it would be those. I don't see any on a recently made car, though. Also note that my comments about American cars and their reliability expressly does not apply to nearly any car made in the 80s. heh.
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