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  1. #1
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Central Park Racing Question

    The first race of course is this weekend, but as I have never raced there before, I was curious where people parked, if there were decent areas for trainer warm up, where the wheel pit is etc. Do any of you have any advice or perhaps horror stories to tell so that I can avoid making the day more miserable than just simply choking frigid air into my lungs at 6:30am trying not to get dropped like an anvil? Thanks in advance and see you in the park.

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    Yes, parking that's what I want to know. Otherwise, I ride to the park from Brooklyn. That should be some nice 1 hour warm up ride. Sorry, the race ain't a crit. You flatted a tire, your race is over. Is not like you can rejoin the pack on the next lap given that it is 6 miles per lap. For me, just another day doing threshold work in the park. Is the first day of the racing season in NYC so don't expect anything crazy to happen.

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    Who did the race? I did the 3/4 and launch couple of attacks. Couldn't go anywhere. The race was less organized and so we have 2 big fields. Pro123+masters and 3/4/5. Is only 18 miles and so there was no reason for the strong men 3 and 4 to hold back.

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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    I was in the 3/4 and was having a great time with it untill I hit a nasty pothole and cracked not one (of course it couldn't have just been one) but BOTH of my Zipp 404's. Had to drop out. Now I have to rebuild and come back out the 26th.

    Were there any attacks? I was seriously considering the two tight corners followed by the climb as a great area to attack, but only managed one lap prior to the DNF.

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    yeah, I wouldn't race carbon wheels around here, except maybe Prospect because it was resurfaced - NYC racing is tough and not the place for delicate equipment.

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    Sorry to hear that and I bet you are a heavier rider. Or the tire pressure was too high. I was on my Hed Stinger 60. I rode through couple of rough spots, not hitting a big hole directly, my wheel survived. 2 of my team mates had a flat also. With the way the pace these strong guys are holding, you better be able to sustain at least 28 mph for 5 minutes to get a gap going. Otherwise, it will all just come back together. But it would be a nice training race for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
    I was in the 3/4 and was having a great time with it untill I hit a nasty pothole and cracked not one (of course it couldn't have just been one) but BOTH of my Zipp 404's. Had to drop out. Now I have to rebuild and come back out the 26th.

    Were there any attacks? I was seriously considering the two tight corners followed by the climb as a great area to attack, but only managed one lap prior to the DNF.

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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    At 166, I don't think of myself as a heavy rider. 28 for 5 minutes...not impossible when I am TTing, but I don't think I could do it there without at least one other to help. And the problem with races with 4s and 5s is that as soon as two guys get a gap of 70 feet, they start chasing like mad.

    Im in Cali for a few weeks, and by then my race wheels should be back in order (I am thinking of the 35gm heavier rims to replace them...supposedly 2x impact resistance for 70gm weight penalty total). Then I will give it a go again, but I am not sure I am likely to sit in the middle of the pack this time...would rather suck a little wind and be able to see hazards coming...learned the expensive way today.

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    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    damn, sucks about the wheels. i think going with a slightly heavier\stronger wheel is a good idea. the hills aren't long enough to get a whole lot of benefit from a uber light wheel.

    last season i raced on AM classic 350's and i would have gladly traded in the weight for a bit of stiffness. they were flexing quite a bit - i kept looking down to see if i had a low tire or flat.

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
    I hit a nasty pothole and cracked not one (of course it couldn't have just been one) but BOTH of my Zipp 404's. Had to drop out.
    I think you just had bad luck.I'm heavier than you and race on Zipps. I did a race last week with a cobbled section, and had no problems. I'd stay with the regular 404 rims and just realize that stuff is going to happen occasionally.

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    Senior Member djbowen1's Avatar
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    Anyone know how hard the Cat5 is ? How many laps and such. I am going to go over and watch this Sat.

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    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbowen1
    Anyone know how hard the Cat5 is ? How many laps and such. I am going to go over and watch this Sat.
    i think they are two laps - 12 miles.

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    Seriously, how big of a difference...

    see this other thread, and the accompanying links...bottom line, whatever equipment
    you are using makes no diff unless you are a pro. So like timmhaan says, err on the side of strength.

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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmp66
    Seriously, how big of a difference...

    see this other thread, and the accompanying links...bottom line, whatever equipment
    you are using makes no diff unless you are a pro. So like timmhaan says, err on the side of strength.
    Thanks for the advice, but I assure you that the equip does make a difference in the upper levels of racing (not just pro).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
    Thanks for the advice, but I assure you that the equip does make a difference in the upper levels of racing (not just pro).
    But this is a perfect example of how the best equipment is not the most expensive or lightest or most "bling". If you had been on a set of box rim wheels you probably would have finished, and if you had the strength you might have placed. There's a reason why most of the races around here (Prospect, Central and FBF are best raced on stiff al aero wheels or box section rims). The hills are nowhere near steep enough for a weight advantage to be had, and the flats are definately the place for as much of an aero advantage as possible. Save the wicked light expensive stuff for upstate races (but definately not the Battenkill race in April).
    Damn the Man, Save the Empire
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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    I wasn't using them for the weight savings because you are right...no real advantage. The aero advantage does exist however, and that is why I was using them. I thought about using my DA wheels (which are al box low spoke count) but didn't really think the surface would be anything to worry about. Yeah, I would have been able to stick it out and likely place in a bunch sprint, I was just giving myself any advantage I could get for a possible breakaway (I like solo efforts and really am trying to focus on staying in TT shape). As it is, I still think it likely bad luck on my part and when I come back, I will still likely be on the 404's with the Pave rim (supposed 2x impact resistance). I do appreciate the advic and concern from everyone though. I guess I just want it to be known that I am not a weight weenie, just an aero weenie (and before anyone says why not use the 808s, I will say its because I think that a bunch sprint is likely and the 404s are better to sprint on).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
    I wasn't using them for the weight savings because you are right...no real advantage. The aero advantage does exist however, and that is why I was using them. I thought about using my DA wheels (which are al box low spoke count) but didn't really think the surface would be anything to worry about. Yeah, I would have been able to stick it out and likely place in a bunch sprint, I was just giving myself any advantage I could get for a possible breakaway (I like solo efforts and really am trying to focus on staying in TT shape). As it is, I still think it likely bad luck on my part and when I come back, I will still likely be on the 404's with the Pave rim (supposed 2x impact resistance). I do appreciate the advic and concern from everyone though. I guess I just want it to be known that I am not a weight weenie, just an aero weenie (and before anyone says why not use the 808s, I will say its because I think that a bunch sprint is likely and the 404s are better to sprint on).
    Just one more bit of advice regarding wheels in NYC races. If you are going to do any of the Floyd Bennett Field races on Tuesday nights heed Charlie I's advice and leave the Zipps at home. It's a hell of a rough course that really demands box section rims. (It's an old airstrip so when the cracks and holes open up over the winter there's really nothing to do to close them up). Good luck with the rest of the season I'll see you out there in April or so.
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    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    by the way daneil - i saw one of your teammates this morning doing hill repeats in prospect (you still race for BVF, right?). nice red specialized bike. there has been a curious lack of training going on, despite the decent weather. i thought i saw a lot more people training at this time last year. i've only been seeing a handful of guys lately.

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    that would have been me...have been riding ~ 7 - 830 in the mornings this week, if I was also surprised not to see anyone out. but people have different schedules and ride at all times.

    anyway, re: wheels. If I were in the market for a set of deep aero wheels i'd get mavic cosmic carbones...it's basically an open pro rim with a carbon fairing...not the lightest wheel but definitely strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    doing hill repeats in prospect


    Edit: I don't mean to offend anybody training in Prospect, or any BVFers for that matter, but I come from a part of the country where the "hill" in PP would be more like a speed bump.

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    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    i used to do repeats of harlem hill in central park as well. both are really more of a short interval type workout, but do them enough times and it works. whenever i can afford the time, i like to do repeats on the hill at the end of river road in NJ. at a little less than a mile and around 7%, that hurts after a few times up.

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    granted...it's not much of a hill, but it's a better workout than just going around the park if you have less than 2 hours. actually the reason i was doing that was to minimize the wind (i get really bad ear pain from the cold and don't have the best headband thing - gotta get one for next winter)

    I was in South Africa for work in january. rented a bike there - now THOSE are hills...the kind where you just settle into a cadence and bide your time till you get up. Nice smooth roads, too...you could ride your ZIPP's all the time.

  22. #22
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmp66
    I was in South Africa for work in january. rented a bike there - now THOSE are hills...the kind where you just settle into a cadence and bide your time till you get up. Nice smooth roads, too...you could ride your ZIPP's all the time.

    Never used the zipps for a training ride...My crappy Alex 330's help to increase the weight and resistance enough that they are perfect for that. And though I train in France in July, the hills out here in Western NJ, though quite a bit shorter, have some nasty grades (one local hill peaks at 28%) and quite a bit more elevation than does central park and work just fine for me.

    BTW, thanks for the advice on the other NY rides. Though I don't think it likely that I will get out there midweek, if I do, I will keep it to my sturdy wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmp66
    granted...it's not much of a hill, but it's a better workout than just going around the park if you have less than 2 hours. actually the reason i was doing that was to minimize the wind (i get really bad ear pain from the cold and don't have the best headband thing - gotta get one for next winter)

    I was in South Africa for work in january. rented a bike there - now THOSE are hills...the kind where you just settle into a cadence and bide your time till you get up. Nice smooth roads, too...you could ride your ZIPP's all the time.
    I'm just kidding, I try to get the most out of the hills around here too. How do you go about it in PP? Do you just turn around at the top or do you make a shorter loop on another part of the road? I'm only asking because I thought that you were only allowed to go in one direction around the park.

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    Well, you don't need a hill to train to climb a hill. Let me put it this way, I have been on a threshold power interval overload for 2 months. I just do these 2x30 or 3x20 intervals either in PP or CP. Keeping my power at 3.7w/kg. By the end of my second month, I went out with my team mates doing a ride to Bear Mountain totaling 120miles. This was after racking up 15 hours in a week on the bike and over 800TSS. I was riding with our cat2 riders and couple of cat1 and 2 from another teams. I didn't bonk. I wasn't the last one getting up to the summit. I got up to the summit in 26 minutes with an average power of 230w. Mind you, even on our way back via 9w we hit plenty of rollers and hills. I was in no way riding without gas.

    Just to point out that if you have been training on threshold power work, you can still outclimb a lot of guys who live in a hilly area. This only work if you have a power meter, of course. When you generate 3.7w/kg in an hour on the flat, you can do the same thing on a hill too. Your speed will be slower on the hill versus on the flat, of course. Try to ride a bigger gear on the flat, 53 x 16 or 15, at 80 rpm cadence or lower. Watch your HR. Do 2 to 3 laps in PP. I bet your climbing ability will improve after 4 to 6 weeks. And so as your threshold power.

    Quote Originally Posted by acathi_cyclist
    I'm just kidding, I try to get the most out of the hills around here too. How do you go about it in PP? Do you just turn around at the top or do you make a shorter loop on another part of the road? I'm only asking because I thought that you were only allowed to go in one direction around the park.

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    I never raced in NYC, but when I raced in the early 80's they said that in the NYC race you had an extra incentive not to get dropped. They had a saying "off the back, off the bike". Guys that fell off the back were getting their bikes jacked by muggers! Don't know if its true but it makes a good story.

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