Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-28-06, 03:32 PM   #1
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cassette choice

Thinking of trying some racing.

Have 50/34 chainrings on Tarmac.

Live in hilly area, eg 127 mile ride/race upcoming has cat1 2500 ft climb at very end of ride over 5 miles (1700 ft over last 3 miles) Total >13k climbing.

Have been happy w/ 12-25 cassette so far with shorter climbs.

Spin out occasionally on 50/12, but only on steepest downhills.
Need to work on my cornering, descending technique. At this point, to hang with people faster than myself, see this as more important than 12 vs 11.

My question is, to start Cat 5 racing, do I need a 50/11?

Thanks for your help.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 03:34 PM   #2
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BTW, I'm 5'8, 145#. Climb better than descend/hammer.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 03:37 PM   #3
2Rodies
El Diablo
 
2Rodies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For me that would be great gearing on that type of course but you should pre-ride it and see how it works for you. I just did a very simular race with that very same gearing, although I added an 11t for the long descents.
2Rodies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 03:37 PM   #4
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO
Thinking of trying some racing.

Have 50/34 chainrings on Tarmac.

Live in hilly area, eg 127 mile ride/race upcoming has cat1 2500 ft climb at very end of ride over 5 miles (1700 ft over last 3 miles) Total >13k climbing.

Have been happy w/ 12-25 cassette so far with shorter climbs.

Spin out occasionally on 50/12, but only on steepest downhills.
Need to work on my cornering, descending technique. At this point, to hang with people faster than myself, see this as more important than 12 vs 11.

My question is, to start Cat 5 racing, do I need a 50/11?

Thanks for your help.

11% av grade for the last three miles? Mercy lands.

Use the 11. Never hurts.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 03:43 PM   #5
bigskymacadam
so whatcha' want?
 
bigskymacadam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 1,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
if you have the 11 already, by all means but you don't need it ... i use a 50/12 and it's been fine for a beginner.
__________________

Cycling Rocks! | Local Race Photos
bigskymacadam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 03:56 PM   #6
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypress
11% av grade for the last three miles? Mercy lands.

Use the 11. Never hurts.
Thanks,

Actually for that specific ride and a couple others with very hilly terrain, have contemplated 13-29 (Campy has 12-25 and 13-29). I am not treating these very hilly long rides as a race.

Like my 12-25 on my Tarmac and Cross Veloce bikes.

Just got 2nd rear wheel for Tarmac as a backup and possibly for some gear variety. Could go 11-23, 12-25, or 13-39.

11-23 might want separate chain than 12-25
12-25 could use same chain/RD, but no variety.
13-29 would need separate chain; MIGHT need med cage RD

Any more opinions which cassette to choose for this second rear wheel?

Last edited by TJHOO; 04-28-06 at 04:03 PM.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 03:59 PM   #7
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.mountainsofmisery.com/MoMDMCRtP.html

elevation profile of the previously mentioned ride
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 04:06 PM   #8
2Rodies
El Diablo
 
2Rodies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Campy also makes a 13/26 which might be a good option.
2Rodies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 04:19 PM   #9
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Bikes:
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you will be fine with a 12-25. It is a cat 5, and so there are going to be no killer breaks that are going to occur on downhills. You would do much better to learn how to get in a STRONG aero tuck, because once you have spun out your 12 on a descent, the amount of power output it would take to make any appreciable difference in descending speed would be enormous. I have an 11-25 that I use only for hilly time trials where a second or two can be the difference, but since it is a mass start, the 11 is not going to do anything for you. Good luck and have fun.
DrWJODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 04:35 PM   #10
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Rodies
Campy also makes a 13/26 which might be a good option.
Thanks, but 13-26 gives me less range for climbing than 13-29 and less power than 12-25.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 04:37 PM   #11
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
you will be fine with a 12-25. It is a cat 5, and so there are going to be no killer breaks that are going to occur on downhills. You would do much better to learn how to get in a STRONG aero tuck, because once you have spun out your 12 on a descent, the amount of power output it would take to make any appreciable difference in descending speed would be enormous. I have an 11-25 that I use only for hilly time trials where a second or two can be the difference, but since it is a mass start, the 11 is not going to do anything for you. Good luck and have fun.
.

Thanks, this is what my impression was, that I'd need to work on descending technique more than would need a 50/11 combo.

Now contemplating the 13-29 for some really hilly rides. What do you think??

Let's be sure you all know I'm talking a 50/34 compact, not 53/39.

Cypress recommended the 11.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 04:54 PM   #12
Pizza Man
Racing iS my Training
 
Pizza Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Bikes: 07 Bianchi San Jose, 08 Tarmac SL2, 05 Cervelo P3
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO
Thinking of trying some racing.

Have 50/34 chainrings on Tarmac.

Live in hilly area, eg 127 mile ride/race upcoming has cat1 2500 ft climb at very end of ride over 5 miles (1700 ft over last 3 miles) Total >13k climbing.

Have been happy w/ 12-25 cassette so far with shorter climbs.

Spin out occasionally on 50/12, but only on steepest downhills.
Need to work on my cornering, descending technique. At this point, to hang with people faster than myself, see this as more important than 12 vs 11.

My question is, to start Cat 5 racing, do I need a 50/11?

Thanks for your help.
I've been using 50-34, 11-23 all season through Cat 5, Cat 4, and now Cat 3. I've rarely used the 50-11 except on a downhill finish. I'm a pretty decent climber (5'9", 139 lbs) so 34-23 has been fine for me, but if I were doing a long climb like that, I might use the 12-25 I have on my training wheels.
Pizza Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-06, 05:11 PM   #13
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO
.



Cypress recommended the 11.

I mix and match my cassette in a way. I bought a Dura-Ace 12-25 then threw the 11t off of an ultegra set up on there. But I'm more of a power type of guy running a 53-42 in the front.

It can be a bastard on anything past 7% grade but most races don't hit like that around here. I always have the option of throwing a 27t in the back if I see fit.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-06, 08:58 AM   #14
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO
http://www.mountainsofmisery.com/MoMDMCRtP.html

elevation profile of the previously mentioned ride
The MOM route is in my back yard. I race with a 53/39 11x23 but I would use a 12x27 for MOM. So for your set up a 34/23 will be difficult on Johns Creek and Mt. Lake imo. For MOM use the 12x25 and just tuck on the down hills, for racing you will most likely want an 11.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-06, 09:56 AM   #15
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,112
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
50x12 is over 40 mph at 120 rpm. at that point on a descent your hitting so much wind resistence that additional speed from pedaling is hardly worth the energy expenditure. It is highly unlikely you'll get dropped on a desent because you don't have enough gear.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-06, 10:50 AM   #16
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmckenna
The MOM route is in my back yard. I race with a 53/39 11x23 but I would use a 12x27 for MOM. So for your set up a 34/23 will be difficult on Johns Creek and Mt. Lake imo. For MOM use the 12x25 and just tuck on the down hills, for racing you will most likely want an 11.
thanks.

Now deciding among 3 options:
1. 12-25
2. 13-29
3. IRD 12-28 or 11-28. See thread below

Like my 12-25 for almost all riding.

IRD Cassette experience?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-06, 10:55 AM   #17
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
50x12 is over 40 mph at 120 rpm. at that point on a descent your hitting so much wind resistence that additional speed from pedaling is hardly worth the energy expenditure. It is highly unlikely you'll get dropped on a desent because you don't have enough gear.
On steep, curvy descent, I have much work to do on my technique before would benefit from 11.
Now on a long, more gradual straight downhill, MIGHT have use for 11. I tend to keep rel low cadence.
Where I live, there are more of the first type (steep, curvy).
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-06, 01:08 PM   #18
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO
thanks.

Now deciding among 3 options:
1. 12-25
2. 13-29
3. IRD 12-28 or 11-28. See thread below

Like my 12-25 for almost all riding.

IRD Cassette experience?
It looks like the 11x28 will give you the best of both worlds at least for the big centuries. I think a tighter 11x21 or 23 would be better for racing though.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-06, 02:07 PM   #19
feltdude
dog = interval
 
feltdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sanford, NC
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional
Posts: 629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
An 11x28 isn't going to shift very smoothly though. I use an 11x25 in the mountains and 11x23 the rest of the time.
feltdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-06, 06:04 AM   #20
EURO
My toilet-Floyd's future
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I race on 48/34 and 11-21 or 11-23
__________________
EURO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-06, 05:17 PM   #21
johnnny
Prrro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes: Two-wheeler
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EURO
I race on 48/34 and 11-21 or 11-23
If you can race on a 48/11 then either your races are incredibly slow or you are the world's best spinner.


And yes TJHOO an 11 would definitely be a good option for the flat/slightly downhill, tailwind/crosswind sections.
johnnny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-06, 05:43 PM   #22
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,112
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnny
If you can race on a 48/11 then either your races are incredibly slow or you are the world's best spinner.


And yes TJHOO an 11 would definitely be a good option for the flat/slightly downhill, tailwind/crosswind sections.

Not really 48x11 is over 42 mph at 120 mph. A good sprinter can turn over 140 rpm, or more, no problem.
So 48x 11 might be a little undergeared for a UCI Protour event, but its going to serve the other 99.99% of the population just fine.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-06, 05:47 PM   #23
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,112
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
just as a reference, back in the day, I used to race on 52/45 front and 13-17 rear. 52/13 is a lower gear than 48/11, and I never lost a sprint because I spun out. I have to laugh at everybody who worries ther 53/12, or 50/11 is not enough gear for their massive legs. Just for historical perspective, there was a day when 52/14 was the standard top end ridden by some guys who could fly by anybody on this board with one leg.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-06, 06:04 PM   #24
zimbo
Senior Member
 
zimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North Carolina
Bikes:
Posts: 2,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO
Ok, wait. The event you are describing is a RIDE, not a RACE. I would say that unless you are a very experience climber acclimated to very long rides, you'll want to have at least a 12-25 on the back to go with your 34 up front.

--Steve
zimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-06, 07:25 PM   #25
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbo
Ok, wait. The event you are describing is a RIDE, not a RACE. I would say that unless you are a very experience climber acclimated to very long rides, you'll want to have at least a 12-25 on the back to go with your 34 up front.

--Steve
astute observation.

For this RIDE, don't need 11. In fact had been considering 13-29. At this point think 12-25 will suffice. In fact at this point am thinking 50/34 and 12-25 combo will suffice for 99.9% needs. So had LBS put on 12-25 on 2nd (backup) rear wheel. Nicely, they offered to let me have demo 12-25 cassette for the hilly ride listed above. I don't plan to use it. After this ride, could decide later on 11-23 , 12-25, 13-29, 11-28, 12-28.....for that 2nd wheel's more long term use.

Another RIDE in July has 6 mile climb w/ 1-1.5 mile climb of 22% at mile 80 of 100 in August heat. Might need 29 for that.
Have Med cage rear derailleur already on Cross Veloce, and have 2nd rear wheel for that bike too. Could put 12-28 or 13-29 for that ride.

In long run, might want 11 for racing, but I have a lot of experience to gain prior to that.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:10 AM.