smoke

.....i've read and heard people say both ways. i've gotta vote for hard. i just can't seem to get there, no matter what i do. i'm getting pretty fed up with it. SO.....let me know what you think, what kind of times you turn, and how hard you work to make it happen.

Mothra

Takes about 2-3 years of training to average 25mph on a TT of 10-miles (24 minutes). Requires LOTS of interval training at above 25mph... The actual amount of time it takes, 2-3 years is "easy".

But try interval training at 28-32mph to max-HR, 2-3x a week, 5-10 intervals a day with your legs burning red-hot in searing pain from lactic acid, cramping and locking up at the end of the intervals, your heart beating so fast it makes you dizzy & lungs coughing up blood... Spasms and spontaneous cramps in the middle of the night waking you up in screaming agony with your ankles next to your ears... Having the discipline and mental toughness to do that kind of training... yeah, that's "hard".

We should take a poll, I bet less than 1% of the people here can do 25mph in a 10-mile TT...

Snicklefritz

I'm sure DrW. will step in soon. I think he does a 27 mph TT!

bigskymacadam

i can only do 20-21 mph over 20 miles. 25 is beyond my reach at this point ...

R600DuraAce

I did about 24mph not on my best day. Was it hard? Not really. I just did a 1 hour and 25 minutes sub-threshold work. About 89% of my LT power. What makes it hard is that you are strapped in an aero position for an hour. Parts of your body will begin to get sored. After the TT, you could barely walk. Beside that you must have the ability to sustain your LT power or power at LTHR for 1 hour, you must know how to pace yourself.

DrWJODonnell

Snick, my last ten miler was 20:30. Not quite 30mph. I have another next week and then one more the week following. I plan to go above 30 on one of them at least. Next year, I am hoping to have my 40k time down a few minutes and approaching 50 minutes and change. I am one of the lucky ones. I TT quite well.

As for breaking 25, if you have not yet done it, yes it will be hard. I believe it was LeMond who said, "It doesn't get any easier. You just get faster." It will be hard, but it is not impossible. Once you do it, you will set a goal of 26, 27 or 28. Your goals should be hard. Barring some physical difficulty, you will be able to achieve your goal. Stick with it.

R600DuraAce

Is not interval training. You need a monster huge base miles during the Winter to develop the necessary aerobic capacity to sustain your power output at LT for 1 hour. You need tons of threshold power work at 2x20, 2x30, 1 hour, or more. Interval work above your LT power is good for increasing your vo2max power. TT isn't about riding at your VO2 max power for 1 hour. Is about sustain your power output at LT for 1 hour. You may hit your vo2max power climbing up a roller or a hill. That usually lasts about 1 to 5 minutes. The trick here is that for pacing in a TT you are riding at LT power and not have your power dropped because of fatigue. You will be surprised how easily your power output can drop at the last 15 minutes of your 1 hour TT.

Warblade

One of my Pro 1/2 friends did a sub 20 minute 10mile TT earlier this year ON A FIXED GEAR. Set a course record. He's insane. He also went on a 70mile breakaway at the Mt Hood Cycling classic. He's also one of the nicest people I know. I've never EVER seen him mad.

smoke

we make our own luck. luck is the residue of design. i'd rather be lucky than good. so, DrW, how do you get so fast? what kind of workouts do you do? what is your position on the bike like?

El Diablo Rojo

Last year in the State TT I did 40k in a little over 58 min. After I crossed the line I thought I was going to puke. I have never felt so spent in my life. In otherwords it was hard.

merlinextraligh

25mph for an hour is a benchmark. It's not going to win many TT's but it definitely not easy. If you can do a sub hour 40k you're a bike racer.

Duke of Kent

While we're talking times and speeds...

Are we talking like an actual TT, with aero bars, and proper setup, aero helmet and deep dish wheels?

Or are we talking about standard road setup, in the drops, as part of a workout, etc?

The original question also fails to state a distance over which this speed should be maintained. What is it?
Pretty sure my mother could get out and ride a mile at 25mph.

These things need to be specified.

smoke

that's a fair shot. i'm talking a 25 mile TT with full aero setup

DrWJODonnell

You have a strong mother. One mile at twenty five miles an hour is about 2 minutes and 24 seconds of impossible hell for someone who has not trained! I do agree that there were no specifications, but the standard benchmark TT is the 40k, so I am guessing that is what was being talked about. Still, 10k or 80k, a time trial of 25mph or higher is not easy.

As to how I get so fast? I spend a lot of time not being fast. Though there are a lot of things I do not agree with him on, R600 is correct in writing of base miles. In addition, elevating your lactate threshold (many ways to do this) is beneficial. Aerodynamics is of utmost importance, particularly over 22mph. Most people can take a cut in power output and still become faster due to improved aero position. Pain tolerance is important too. I would lie if I said that it does not hurt, but I know that I don't hurt nearly as bad as most people, because when I TT, I end up trancelike. Not to get too voodoo on people, but I have worked on my breathing and focus on that, HR, and cadence. Occasionally I can actually form a thought which invariably is "Oh, can I go faster??" Other than that it is just going to a place most people fear.

I am sure genetics also play a role as my 5 minute power output and my hour power output are not much different. As a sprinter, I am useless. I win my races by beating the sprinters into submission before I get to the line. Needless to say, I don't win all of my races.

How to get fast? Have a training plan, stick to it and you will achieve your goals. Even if you can only train 3 hours a week, you can get where you want to be.

DrWJODonnell

One other thing. Learn to relax in your TT setup. Other than some sore neck muscles getting used to looking up for so long, TTing should NOT be painful or cramping in any other way. R600 speaks of difficulty with an hour in the TT setup. That shows me either very little training in the position, or a very poor setup. I ride Tempo or even recovery on my TT bike for 2-3 hours sometimes.

R600DuraAce

Yeah, I don't have a dedicated TT machine. In fact, I don't bother to change my road setup at all other than putting on a pair of TT bar and a 60mm HED Stinger front wheel. Even that, my position wasn't that aero until I switched to a longer 270mm TT bar on a 110mm stem. Still, sitting on the nose of my SLR saddle for an hour can be painful. I will get used to it soon.

Richard Cranium

Just out of curiosity, how many think an indoor trainer contributed to their ability to TT at 25mph and how many feel that all they needed was the time to ride on the road.....?

smoke

i'm comfortable on the bike. i've ridden half-ironmans as the biking member of a team with no problems.

Snuffleupagus

I don't want to stir anything up...but...

Just anecdotal evidence here, but on the last TT results I saw for a flat course (13 miles, perfectly flat) - the SLOWEST guy in the CAT4s turned out just a hair over 25mph, with the CAT4 winner racking up 29mph average. The P1/2 guys were almost to a man doing over 30mph.

Duke of Kent

Personally, in order to get the most wattage during my workouts or breaks, I move forward on the saddle into a position you see Pro's adapt when doing TT's. Point of the saddle in my taint. It's not painful as I'm used to it, but obviously not the most comfortable position. However, it's bearable, and worth doing. For some people, being 1) comfortable, 2) aero, 3) powerful and 4) legal is just not possible.

Due to the small size of my frame, I have a very hard time getting far enough forward to produce the power I want and still maintain typical long ride comfort AND follow the 5cm rule. However, any discomfort I may be in is always muted by the fact that my legs are about to explode.

zimbo

Being fast in a time trial is about two things: functional threshold power (i.e. how much power you can sustain evenly for the duration of the event) and aerodynamics. They are both important and they both require training.

Case in point: I have a PowerTap SL power meter and have measured my 10-mile power at 305 watts average and I weigh 163 pounds. I have a road bike, regular wheels, clip-on aero bars, and a frame that is a bit too big for me (meaning that I can't get low enough). My 10-mile TT time (only tried it once so far) on a flat, almost windless oval course was 24:17--just a hair under 25mph.

However, I know of several individuals who have a 10-mile power of "only" 270 watts but due to aerodynamics and equipment have completed a similar course in 21:30. I'd be really curious to know what DrWJODonnell's 20-minute power numbers are.

Bottom line: you need to work on FTP and aerodynamics. Both.

--Steve

cycle17

None of the TTs where I live are flat. My club TTs sure aren't they are 8.2 miles. I can do 20+ avg. on a road bike. BUT 25 would take a lot more training I think. I got a TT bike recently, so we'll see how much difference that makes. BUt yea...I would say 25 mph avg. would be fairly hard depending on the course/terrain.

zimbo

Yeah, that's a good point. Not all courses are created equal. The fastest I've ever done the 20-ish mile loop near my house is 21 mph. It's got lots of rollers and stop lights

--Steve

DrWJODonnell

My 20 minute power is in the realm of 340 watts +/- 15 depending on the day and importance of the race. These are race based numbers and not due to formal testing. I will let you know with more certainty this off season.

Snuff, you are making me feel bad. I have been close to breaking 30 but have not quite yet done it. You have either some REALLY strong riders there or perhaps a tailwind on a one way course?? just me pouting. I will try to break 30 as the southern pro/1/2 riders did to a man.

Snuffleupagus

I didn't do the TT, and was a bit suprised by the speeds as well...but it is what it is. A CAT4 team mate of mine averaged 28.04 (I think...) for the course.