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Old 08-05-06, 07:25 AM   #1
Blaireau
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THIS is what Phlandis will do next....

He will ALA (Agaisnt Lawyer's Advice ) decide that he's had it and he will Come Clean and publicly confess!
Yes, I know this is a bold prediction, but I just don't think Phlandis has in him to keep on lying forever a la Lance.
Remeber the day after the A sample results came out? Phlandis sounded shaken, almost contrite, "this" close to admitting his guilt... And then he lawyered up and let hi phony pr people do the talking...

This is a testimony to the faith I have in Phloyd; I think that in the end he won't be able to live with it and just come clean. Its our only hope.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:30 AM   #2
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I hope so. Maybe his hip replacement will give him just the "nothing-to-lose" attitude he needs to rat a bunch of people out too. Time to clean house.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:39 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DrPete
I hope so. Maybe his hip replacement will give him just the "nothing-to-lose" attitude he needs to rat a bunch of people out too. Time to clean house.
Very true, I hadn't thought of it that way. This is an even better incentive to take the high road, than just the impulse to be honest... Of course this is assuming that he was completly on the up and up when it came to his hip problems
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Old 08-05-06, 07:39 AM   #4
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I hope so. Maybe his hip replacement will give him just the "nothing-to-lose" attitude he needs to rat a bunch of people out too. Time to clean house.
Interesting. How come no one else has done this yet? Or have they and I've just missed it? i;m talking here about a full expose. Are the banned riders afraid that speaking out means that no one will want to touch with them after the 2 year ban has ended - because they know they will just have to dope again?
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Old 08-05-06, 07:40 AM   #5
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So there's no hope left at all that this guy really didn't cheat? ....That somehow, some way this was a natural thing or a tampered-with test?

I'm just having such a difficult time swallowing this whole, "All pro cyclists are dopers" thing....
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Old 08-05-06, 07:47 AM   #6
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I was right there with ya, Hip, but the more I learn about the testing methods, and the more I realize that these guys can't get away with this stuff without the help of the team infrastructure, the harder time I have believing that these guys are clean.

There's still a WAY outside chance that he really is innocent, but if he really had this "naturally high" testosterone it would've popped up by now, don't you think?
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Old 08-05-06, 07:48 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
Interesting. How come no one else has done this yet? Or have they and I've just missed it? i;m talking here about a full expose. Are the banned riders afraid that speaking out means that no one will want to touch with them after the 2 year ban has ended - because they know they will just have to dope again?

You hit the nail on the head. You speak out and do a complete "expose" and you will be ostracised by everyone in biking. All your buddies, teamates, etc will never look at you, let alone talk to you again... That's a hell of a thing to comtemplate when you think of it.
The equivalent would be the mafia's "Omerta" (law of silence). Except they are no upsides to breaking it in cycling...
Even when they are clearly busted, a la Hamilton, there is still quiet support by other riders for the busted cyclist. Because they know it could happen to them in a heart beat. (check out the Hincapie link to Tyler Hamilton's web site...)
This "law of silence" explains why Armstrong and other cyclists dislike Lemond so much. Looks like Lemond might just spill the beans.... (Though Greg has no credibility if he doesn't come clean himself, which he has not done.)
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Old 08-05-06, 07:51 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Blaireau
You hit the nail on the head. You speak out and do a complete "expose" and you will be ostracised by everyone in biking. All your buddies, teamates, etc will never look at you, let alone talk to you again... That's a hell of a thing to comtemplate when you think of it.
The equivalent would be the mafia's "Omerta" (law of silence). Except they are no upsides to breaking it in cycling...
Even when they are clearly busted, a la Hamilton, there is still quiet support by other riders for the busted cyclist. Because they know it could happen to them in a heart beat. (check out the Hincapie link to Tyler Hamilton's web site...)
This "law of silence" explains why Armstrong and other cyclists dislike Lemond so much. Looks like Lemond might just spill the beans.... (Though Greg has no credibility if he doesn't come clean himself, which he has not done.)
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months and if Floyd's hip situation affects this at all. I'm hoping there is still an explanation (besides cheating) for what happened, buyt those hopes are diminishing. If Floyd has trouble coming back from teh hip operation I wonder if maybe that might tip the scales and get him to do such an expose.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:51 AM   #9
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Well it is highly doubtful that he will come clean as he has already made a statement that he is innocent and that he is going to fight the charge.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
So there's no hope left at all that this guy really didn't cheat? ....That somehow, some way this was a natural thing or a tampered-with test?

I'm just having such a difficult time swallowing this whole, "All pro cyclists are dopers" thing....
Man, I feel your pain. Maybe the way to look at it is that when you sit down and think about it, it would be impossible to compete in the TdF without doping. Think of the back to back stages! Imagine a 3 week event where runners would have to run half-marathons followed by Marathons Everyday!! That's basically it.

Don't get me wrong, I think doping goes on in most other pro-sports, but in cycling its a sine qua non. Which explains why its so ingrained. Which also explains why the riders can't come clean. Its a sort of catch 22 situation for the organizers too, since without doping the stage would have to much, much shorter. And slower. And maybe, just maybe, the public would be less interested....

It do think that pro-cyclists are caught between a rock and a hard place here. Of course they all dope, they have to --whether they like it or not. They can't admit it, lest they be ostracised and singled out for the rest of their careers. And if they don't dope, they might as well quit.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
Well it is highly doubtful that he will come clean as he has already made a statement that he is innocent and that he is going to fight the charge.
Even Pete Rose eventually came clean. And I really think Phlandis will do so --much sooner than Pete did.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
Interesting. How come no one else has done this yet? Or have they and I've just missed it? i;m talking here about a full expose. Are the banned riders afraid that speaking out means that no one will want to touch with them after the 2 year ban has ended - because they know they will just have to dope again?
Jose Canseco did this. Everyone hates him... not that they liked him before he outed everyone though.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:26 AM   #13
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David Millar came clean. Now he's racing again. Seems that most have accepted him back.
I wish Floyd had come clean right from the start. Is it too late for that now? I think the lawyers have given him some pretty bad advice...and have steered him in the wrong direction. Greg Lemond said right from the start that he hoped Floyd would take the high road. That is the best advice Floyd received. But then the lawyers took control...and Floyd fell under their influence. GAME OVER!
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Old 08-05-06, 08:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Blaireau
Man, I feel your pain. Maybe the way to look at it is that when you sit down and think about it, it would be impossible to compete in the TdF without doping. Think of the back to back stages! Imagine a 3 week event where runners would have to run half-marathons followed by Marathons Everyday!! That's basically it.

Don't get me wrong, I think doping goes on in most other pro-sports, but in cycling its a sine qua non. Which explains why its so ingrained. Which also explains why the riders can't come clean. Its a sort of catch 22 situation for the organizers too, since without doping the stage would have to much, much shorter. And slower. And maybe, just maybe, the public would be less interested....

It do think that pro-cyclists are caught between a rock and a hard place here. Of course they all dope, they have to --whether they like it or not. They can't admit it, lest they be ostracised and singled out for the rest of their careers. And if they don't dope, they might as well quit.
Interesting thoughts.

It IS crazy what those guys can do.

I'd be for shorter, easier stages and not having to dope to do them then....yes....I'd still watch and be a fan.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:37 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
So there's no hope left at all that this guy really didn't cheat? ....That somehow, some way this was a natural thing or a tampered-with test?

I'm just having such a difficult time swallowing this whole, "All pro cyclists are dopers" thing....
Hip...there is hope. The science will win out in the end. The testing is going to become so good that the cheaters are going to be exposed. They will all be flushed out.

Regarding Floyd, I think he cheated. It's time to get real, no matter how likeable he is--no matter how inspirational was his ride in the Tour. I'll always stand on the side of the science and the testing...because in the end, it will be the science and the testing that make our sport clean again. No one is out to get Floyd. That is just silly. I hope Floyd will regroup quickly, then come back and tell us he cheated. "Take the high road"...as Greg Lemond advised. He could be racing again in 2 years.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Interesting thoughts.

It IS crazy what those guys can do.

I'd be for shorter, easier stages and not having to dope to do them then....yes....I'd still watch and be a fan.
I don't think I'd be for changing the race too much. That is the beauty of the race...is that it is hard.

Wasn't the Tour just as hard in the 1970's ala Merckx? Was doping as widespread then as it is now?
Interesting things happen in the race when the riders get tired. It's the Tour de France. They're supposed to get tired. They're supposed to get exhausted. It's the Tour de France...the toughest sporting event on the planet.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:49 AM   #17
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Doping has been going on in cycling for over 100 years, it's not going to stop.

If Floyd fessed up and told all he knew, everyone would discredit him, say he was a jealous loser/liar. Meanwhile, The next hero who dopes himself to the gills and dies on the roadside will get a monument.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:50 AM   #18
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If the stages are shorter...they will still dope if they can get away with it. Doping will still help them win.
Testing is the answer. Better testing methods are going to flush them all out. It's starting now. The science always wins...in the end.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:53 AM   #19
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Doping has been going on in cycling for over 100 years, it's not going to stop.

If Floyd fessed up and told all he knew, everyone would discredit him, say he was a jealous loser/liar. Meanwhile, The next hero who dopes himself to the gills and dies on the roadside will get a monument.
Riders will always dope if they can get away with it. Better science will end it. It's coming. The dopers will not have a chance.
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Old 08-05-06, 10:47 AM   #20
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Like I said in other threads, if he owns up he needs to do it with a book deal. It could be called "Secrets of the Circus"
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Old 08-05-06, 10:55 AM   #21
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He was fired.
Presumably, has no income.
Who is going to pay for the new hip now?

How long before Flandis is selling tubes and tires in the bike section of Wal-mart?
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Old 08-05-06, 01:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by oneradtec
David Millar came clean. Now he's racing again. Seems that most have accepted him back.
I wish Floyd had come clean right from the start. Is it too late for that now? I think the lawyers have given him some pretty bad advice...and have steered him in the wrong direction. Greg Lemond said right from the start that he hoped Floyd would take the high road. That is the best advice Floyd received. But then the lawyers took control...and Floyd fell under their influence. GAME OVER!
two differences - the first is that millar admitted his doping, but didn't out anyone else. no exposing the entire culture to the light of day, just himself. so he wasn't ostracized. second, his ban began just before the new protour rules started, so he was only banned for two years, and he's young enough to come back from that and still have a career ahead of him. flandis, on the other hand, is looking at 4 years, and he's just too old to come back after that

"There's still a WAY outside chance that he really is innocent, but if he really had this "naturally high" testosterone it would've popped up by now, don't you think?" - Dr Pete

i don't think the A and B samples and natural testosterone are his problem. i think, ultimately, the CIR test is what's going to be the stake in his heart. people have beaten a positive testosterone test, but this CIR one looks pretty tough


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Old 08-05-06, 03:15 PM   #23
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Some of Landis' earlier statements (I'm going to say...") seem to indicate that he is a man unused to telling lies. Allowing lawyers to twist the truth for him may or may not be more acceptable.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:57 PM   #24
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The science always wins...in the end.
But cheating is ALSO a science. And it has managed and will ALWAYS manage to stay a step ahead of the counter-science.

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Old 08-05-06, 07:56 PM   #25
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What would be truly amazing is if he come sclean and lists all the riders he knows that dopes. Including Lance.... who would in turn list all of his contacts and so forth. Basically destroying the Euro peloton and finally letting everyone see that EVERYONE DOPES.

We all know everyone dopes..... it dosen't effect how I view the sport. I will always love bike racing but I hate seeing how one rider loses his career just because he mistakenly left his steroid patch on too long and got caught.
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