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Old 08-05-06, 01:06 PM   #1
reef58
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Things Wont Change Unless...

It looks like cycling will always be full of dopers. A rider goes pro. The only way for him to stay a pro is by results. You can't get results without doping, so the beat goes on. Once you are caught all of those who turn the blind eye to doping throws the doper under the bus. A new doper will replace the outcast doper.

The only way to change things is to have cycling police itself. I am not talking about the UCI, and WADA, but rather the peloton, and the teams. The riders & DS's can change things if they have a reason to. If sponsorship money dries up then they will have the reason. If the sponsorship does not go away then things will not change.

What a year for cycling.

Richard
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Old 08-06-06, 02:05 PM   #2
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More testing + lifetime bans = clean(er) racing.
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Old 08-06-06, 02:11 PM   #3
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maybe this will be a turning point for the sport. i mean, the doping problem couldn't get any worse, could it? at least more people are aware of it now.
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Old 08-06-06, 02:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillMut
More testing + lifetime bans = clean(er) racing.
Agreed!
Zero tolerance.
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Old 08-06-06, 02:17 PM   #5
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Cycling should adopt the same stringent drug testing as professional bodybuilding

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Old 08-06-06, 02:31 PM   #6
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Honestly, how would it possible to do more tests on cyclists than are
already taking place? As long as it is possible to mange the doping process
so that tests come out negative, there isn't much point. If it is only the
occasional unlucky or sloppy rider that tests positive, then there may as
well be no testing at all.
A better designed test would reveal the actual banned substance itself...not
secondary testosterone ratios or elevated hematocrit, etc.
Teams that have riders caught doping should be banned also; team managers
and owners should be held responsible for the actions of their athletes.
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Old 08-07-06, 09:01 AM   #7
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How do you cap doping?

How about not making riders ride 200+kms a day for three weeks straight as they go over and through some of the biggest and well known mountain ranges in the world?

Just a thought.
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Old 08-07-06, 09:44 AM   #8
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My personal take, it is all about the fans.

Look at all of the other sports with doping problems. Baseball and Football come to mind. All of these sports are primarily about Entertainment. Making money for sponsors and pleasing fans.

That being said, IMO doping will continue until WE the fans get up in arms. Stop watching, writing letters etc. If teams start having sponsors backing out due to bad press or fan boycotts, then maybe teams will start doing something about it.

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Old 08-11-06, 08:42 PM   #9
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The biggest problem in cleaning up the sport until this past year has been as pointed out that the money going into teams that dope was still flowing... With Liberty, Wuerth, iShares etc. pulling sponsorship teams are starting to see doping as a problem for themselves and not just the rider who gets caught.

The accountability for doping needs to go all the way to the top of management in the organizations. this IMO includes the Teams, UCI, WADA, Testing Labs, everyone involved needs to follow the rule or we should just throw everything out the 2nd story window baby and all.
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Old 08-11-06, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypress
How do you cap doping?

How about not making riders ride 200+kms a day for three weeks straight as they go over and through some of the biggest and well known mountain ranges in the world?

Just a thought.
This makes sense to me, but I still think everyone will dope just to be more powerful and recover faster.
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Old 08-15-06, 09:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypress
How do you cap doping?

How about not making riders ride 200+kms a day for three weeks straight as they go over and through some of the biggest and well known mountain ranges in the world?

Just a thought.
It's possible to complete the course without doping. You'll just do it slower.
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Old 08-15-06, 09:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppaspoke
Honestly, how would it possible to do more tests on cyclists than are
already taking place? As long as it is possible to mange the doping process
so that tests come out negative, there isn't much point. .
Well the TDF tests stage winner, yellow jersey, and one or two randoms each day. If they did 10 or 20 ramdoms each day, it might become a little harder to manage the doping process without detection.
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Old 08-15-06, 09:35 AM   #13
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There was a great article in Wired News http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,...tw=wn_index_20 about doping and why it will never be eradicated from professional cycling.

It basically comes down to a Prisoner's Dilemma kind of situation. If the peloton is clean then the playing field is even. But no one can know for sure that the peloton is completely clean. So it is in the best immediate interest of any one cyclist to dope because it gives them the edge, no matter what the rest of the peloton does. Since each cyclist (and DS and team doctor) is faced with the same decision, there is always going to be some doping in cycling.

It applies to other sports as well, of course. And the article explains it much better than I can, but it was pretty interesting.
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Old 08-15-06, 10:03 AM   #14
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If an unethical rider can get away with doping they will. There are many unethical people.
The motivations for doping is certainly more than any motivation for not doping right now.
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Old 08-15-06, 10:42 AM   #15
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As said above...Lifetime bans. If you dope, you don't cycle professionally for the rest of your cheating life.
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Old 08-15-06, 11:01 AM   #16
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Lifetime bans go completely against the concept of learning from one's mistakes.
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Old 08-15-06, 11:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Trevor98
Lifetime bans go completely against the concept of learning from one's mistakes.
Doping is NOT a mistake, it is something a rider choses to do.
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Old 08-15-06, 12:42 PM   #18
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Are you saying that choosing to dope is not a mistake?
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Old 08-15-06, 12:57 PM   #19
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Doping is NOT a mistake, it is something a rider choses to do.
+1

Anyone can cheat at anything, some people have ethics, some don't. Second chances just support risking getting caught.
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Old 08-15-06, 12:58 PM   #20
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"It's our job to cheat ... it's their job to catch us".

Don't know where I heard that one.

jw
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Old 08-15-06, 04:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentShifter
Doping is NOT a mistake, it is something a rider choses to do.

I think this goes to the core of the sport and how much pressure the teams place on riders to win. There may even be pressures coming from the organization that indicates to the rider that they would like them to dope for better results with out explicitly saying so.

I say if the riders are getting lifetime bans for one strike, the the teams/DS's/Doc's should be on a 2 strikes and they pull a lifetime ban for the sport.
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Old 08-16-06, 08:23 AM   #22
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"It's our job to cheat ... it's their job to catch us".

Don't know where I heard that one.

jw
some NASCAR idiot said it. The last place we need to go for 'sports' advice is NASCAR.
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Old 08-16-06, 08:23 AM   #23
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What makes people think lifetime bans will work? They hang people in Malaysia for using drugs, but people still do it. In the U.S., hundreds of thousands of people have been put in jail, thousands for life, for using and selling drugs, and people just keep doing it. Authorities are always increasing the severity of punishment for offenses on the promise it will reduce occurrence and they'll keep on doing it forever--if it worked, you'd think there would come a point when they didn't have to do it anymore, but there never does. Makes me think people who propose lifetime bans are more interested in revenge than deterrence.

There are hundreds and hundreds of PEDs. The cost of testing for them all is too great, and if you don't test for them all, then it seems likely that people will have an incentive to use the PEDs they think are not being targeted. If you test for them all, then in view of the cost, you can't test frequently enough to ensure detection, so people have an incentive to try to use during the window of opportunity. IMO, as long as there is an incentive for using PEDS, athletes will use them, and as long as people crave victory and whatever rewards go with it, there will always be such incentives.

I think this is a great sport, and I think that even though I think everyone's doping. I don't think I'd like it that much more if no one were doping, and I know I like it less with all the scandal. For selfish reasons, I'm more interested in eliminating scandal than eliminating doping. And lifetime bans escalate the scandal. It that's what you want, well, to each his own, but it seems like a self-defeating and futile approach to me.
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Old 08-16-06, 09:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
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What makes people think lifetime bans will work? They hang people in Malaysia for using drugs, but people still do it. In the U.S., hundreds of thousands of people have been put in jail, thousands for life, for using and selling drugs, and people just keep doing it. Authorities are always increasing the severity of punishment for offenses on the promise it will reduce occurrence and they'll keep on doing it forever--if it worked, you'd think there would come a point when they didn't have to do it anymore, but there never does. Makes me think people who propose lifetime bans are more interested in revenge than deterrence.
Doping in sport is a lot different from recreational drug use.
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Old 08-16-06, 10:27 AM   #25
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Doping in sport is a lot different from recreational drug use.
Maybe, maybe not, but we're still talking about human beings.
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