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Old 08-13-06, 04:52 AM   #1
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Shut the F UP Floyd.

First off, I believe Floyd didn't dope. Why? None of this adds up. Makes no sense. But Floyd isn't helping himself by being a media butterfly:

>>Armstrong urges Landis to use lower gear with media
By CLIFF BRUNT, Associated Press Writer
August 12, 2006

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Lance Armstrong believes Floyd Landis has said too much in public in his attempt to disprove the positive drug test that cost him the Tour de France title.

"In this day and age, you're not going to get a fair shake in the media," said Armstrong, who rode his bike for charity Saturday at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.



"And the more you get out there and talk about it, I have to talk about it. The best is just to let the process play out and get out of the media. ... I would have encouraged him just to lay low."

Landis, who once competed on Armstrong's team, appeared on the "Tonight Show" this week and has given interviews on all four major network morning shows.

Landis has cited a variety of possible reasons for his failed test: ingesting something that raised his testosterone, cortisone shots for pain in his degenerating hip, drinking beer and whiskey the night before the test, thyroid medication, his natural metabolism and dehydration.

Armstrong, who overcame testicular cancer to win the Tour a record seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005, faced constant doping allegations toward the end of his career.

Landis has tested positive for elevated testosterone and synthetic testosterone, leaving Armstrong to answer more questions about performance-enhancing drugs. The Tour de France said it no longer considers Landis its champion.

"It's obviously not a good situation for cycling," Armstrong said. "Everybody would admit that. Floyd would admit that. It's certainly not a good situation for American cycling. But I am a fan and supporter of Floyd Landis. I believe in him."

Armstrong said cycling's testing policies are among the strictest in sports.

"That's why so many people are out there getting caught, or supposedly getting caught, because we're really aggressive," he said. "If the NFL had the same policy that cycling has, we'd be talking about something different than Floyd Landis right now. It would be a huge story."

Armstrong's two laps Saturday followed the first Race to Replace. All proceeds go to the Lance Armstrong Foundation and the Indiana University Cancer Center.

A.J. Smith had the best time in the 10-lap, 25-mile event and earned an honorary spot on the Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team for the U.S. Pro Championships in September.

The 34-year-old Armstrong said he's enjoying life with his three kids and does not have the itch to come out of retirement.

"It would not at all be a very serious thought," he said. "I'm too busy. I'm having too much fun. I think I certainly made the right decision. The fact of the matter is that I'm old for a guy who wants to win the Tour de France. I wouldn't want to come back and get second."

Armstrong is glad to use cycling to help with cancer research.

"I understand what cycling did for me," he said. "I know that without the sport ... I wouldn't have the opportunity to try to transcend the sport or try to do something bigger in life or move onto another phase of life."


Updated on Saturday, Aug 12, 2006 4:16 pm EDT<<

This whole episode calls into question the bone-headed way the UCI and TDF is going after this doping business. They're destroying their own sport. Amazing. Somebody smack these guys.

A disaster for the TdF and UCI pro cycling no matter how you slice it. Ooofaaaa.
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Old 08-13-06, 07:37 AM   #2
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I agree with your statement. I applaud the UCI and TDF for wanting do get rid of the dopers but honestly, I would think that they would use more tact. They really are pissing off a lot of their own fans. Although honestly, it may not be like that in Europe where people actually care about cycling.
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Old 08-14-06, 01:27 PM   #3
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Personally I think Floyd is a liar.

However I agree that it doesn't make any sense. The thing is just because it doesn't make sense doesn't prove that he was innocent. Tyler Hamilton won me over for awhile with his, I wouldn't be so stupid argument. I have a degree. I wouldn't risk Haven's life, etc.

On the other hand it does add up. That stage 17 ride seemed too good to be true and evidently it was.

Also, it was wrong of the UCI/The French Lab to leak, but in the end that changes nothing.

Last edited by flythebike; 08-14-06 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 08-14-06, 03:08 PM   #4
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>>On the other hand it does add up. That stage 17 ride seemed too good to be true and evidently it was. <<

No it doesn't add up. All the doping experts agree that putting a testoterone patch or taking some steroidal supplement the day before Stage 17 would not have worked to confer an unfair advantage. That doesn't mean Floyd didn't try it - but no matter how you slice it, Stage 17 was all Floyd.

That doesn't mean he's innocent. Maybe he's guilty of being a bonehead, and if it costs him the Tour de France, oh well.

But no doping expert out there can get this to make sense. Because it simply does not. But that doesn't exonerate him. But it does add to the ironic/tragic scope of this whole cluster ****.
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Old 08-14-06, 04:27 PM   #5
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Like another has stated..... Maybe (i believe Floyd) IF he did cheat maybe he was using the teste before the tour during training and had blood drawn. After stage 16 he had it injected and the teste was still in his blood. With having a bonk it screwed up his body chgemistry and he tested positive.
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Old 08-15-06, 10:48 AM   #6
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There is enough reasonable doubt in Floyd's case to hold judgment. I agree with LA and lets just see how it plays out. The only way Floyd is guilty is if he's the stupidest cyclist on the planet.
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Old 08-15-06, 12:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flythebike
Personally I think Floyd is a liar.

However I agree that it doesn't make any sense. The thing is just because it doesn't make sense doesn't prove that he was innocent. Tyler Hamilton won me over for awhile with his, I wouldn't be so stupid argument. I have a degree. I wouldn't risk Haven's life, etc.

On the other hand it does add up. That stage 17 ride seemed too good to be true and evidently it was.

Also, it was wrong of the UCI/The French Lab to leak, but in the end that changes nothing.
Yes, Floyds' comeback on Stage 17 was really impressive given his performance on Stage 16, but after recently re-watching some of Lances' old Tour videos when he attacks on climbs.....it doesn't seem quite as "spectacular" as it seemed at the time (for lack of a better explanation). Plus Floyd had the added benefit of being able to cool himself off regularly, which would be huge on a stage like that. I'm certain that if he didn't have access to that much water, his performance wouldn't have been nearly as impressive.
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Old 08-15-06, 01:12 PM   #8
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Yep, it was all that WATER he injested and poured on the back of his neck. Did they test him for THAT?? Aqua-doping.
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Old 08-15-06, 06:06 PM   #9
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You ever overheat on a climb? I have....sucked all the energy out of me, and my heartrate went through the roof. Being able to keep your core temp down on a day like Floyd had was a huge benefit.
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Old 08-15-06, 09:31 PM   #10
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And as soon as water is on the UCI banned substance list, I'll get your point. But it's not, and I don't.
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Old 08-16-06, 02:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patentcad
No it doesn't add up. All the doping experts agree that putting a testoterone patch or taking some steroidal supplement the day before Stage 17 would not have worked to confer an unfair advantage.
Do you read the Tour de France forum? It's pretty well established that cyclists now do use testoserone for recovery, even in single doses.

There might be no scientific studies that show the benefits of doing this, yet, and there may never be, but in a race where every second counts even a scientifically unmeasureable boost could be significant. At those levels, they make 10 minutes sound like a lot, which was the max gap Floyd got in his solo breakaway, but with terrain like that, you really don't have to be much stronger to get 10 minutes over somebody else. Look at how fast he lost 8 minutes the previous day, from not quite eating and/or drinking enough.

These guys are very finely tuned. A little T boost could be just the ticket. I think what happened was tht he or his doctor screwed up with the masking agent... maybe not enough E that day to keep him below 4:1. If he had not tested above 4:1, then they would not have done the test for syn T.

That makes a lot more sense to me than some disgruntled French scientist risking his career and possibly jail time to make sure Floyd didn't win so some Spanish dude would win. There is no evidence supporting that hypothesis, none. There is also no evidence supporting the possibility that somebody else somehow got T into Floyd without Floyd knowing. None. Those are the only possible explanations for why he tested the way he did. Sadly.
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Old 08-16-06, 06:01 AM   #12
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And as soon as water is on the UCI banned substance list, I'll get your point. But it's not, and I don't.
Oh...I didn't think it was that hard to understand, but I'll explain....

Climbing big mountains on hot days = a tough day

Climbing big mountains on hot days while dousing yourself with 50 water bottles to keep your core temp down so you can go a bit harder = a bit more managable
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Old 08-16-06, 09:13 AM   #13
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>>Climbing big mountains on hot days while dousing yourself with 50 water bottles to keep your core temp down so you can go a bit harder = a bit more managable<<

And of course it's easier with 140psi of air in the tires. Which is also within UCI rules. As is drinking unlimited bottles of water. I thought this was a discussion of what was and was *not* kosher in pro bike racing. Wasn't it?
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Old 08-16-06, 09:35 AM   #14
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Well...sorta...we were discussing Floyd and doping, and his unbelievable comeback on Stage 17 sorta ties into it. I broke it down a little bit further into how being able to effectively cool himself also played a role in his performance....

BTW, out of the 70 water bottles he used that day, he only actually drank 20 of them.
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Old 08-16-06, 01:10 PM   #15
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Well...sorta...we were discussing Floyd and doping, and his unbelievable comeback on Stage 17 sorta ties into it. I broke it down a little bit further into how being able to effectively cool himself also played a role in his performance....

BTW, out of the 70 water bottles he used that day, he only actually drank 20 of them.
That's still a boat load of water. I did a 75 mile road ride in rural Greece on my vacation in 95º Arizona-like dry heat, and drank the equivalent of 5 x 14 oz water bottles. Probably could have used another 1-2, but I simply couldn't drink more than that. My stomach wasn't exactly tolerating my hydration needs. I never bonked or anything. How Floyd could drink 20+ bottles is beyond me. My ride took 5 hours or so, not much different than his 100+ mile Stage ride. Less wattage output of course : ). But tons of climbing.

That dry heat just SUCKS the moisture out of your system. And when I got back home that day I drank like 3 12oz. bottles of soda and ANOTHER liter or two of water before I felt hydrated again. Amazing.
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Old 08-16-06, 03:38 PM   #16
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I've watched how professionals drink while they ride. They take one or two good pulls and toss the bottle away. Figure 4-5 oz per pull at the bottle x 20 bottles = somewhere between 80 - 200 oz of fluid. The middle of that range is about a gallon - which under the conditions seems a believeable amount to me.
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