Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-14-03, 01:30 PM   #1
RainmanP
Mr. Cellophane
Thread Starter
 
RainmanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans, LA
Bikes:
Posts: 3,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Race warmup?

Velo and some of you other regular racers, could you talk a bit about warmup for a race? Styk33's comment that 35 minutes wasn't enough just made me start thinking about it. In his Complete Book of Road Bike Training, Fred Matheny, long time coach and national class racer, suggests that a 20-minute structured warmup with gradually increasing intensity is all you need, that anything more is a waste of energy. Any thoughts?
Regards,
Raymond
__________________
If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!
RainmanP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-03, 02:12 PM   #2
Styk33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks, CA USA
Bikes: 96' DeRose SLX, '04 Cervelo P2K, ~'80 Schwin converted to fixie, '04 Jamis Nova
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mine was not gradually increasing intesity though. I was spinning a low gear for about 20min or so and then a hard effort for 2min, then recovered until the race began.

I too would like to hear suggestions from others. Everyone at the races all seem to do it differently. I saw a guy that looked like he was training when he was on the trainer, doing at least 4 hard efforts. Although he got dropped from the pack early on.
__________________
Reverend Dr. Jay
MySpace
Styk33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-03, 03:18 PM   #3
Maurizio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Outside Boston
Bikes:
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey all.

I don't bother for Warm-Up's for any Road Race longer than 30 miles (and that's all of my road races...). I don't plan on attacking in the first five miles of a race most of the time, and therefore can warm up in the race.

For Crits I'll warm up for about 10 - 15 min. High cadence (~95) but very very easy. I include 1 sprint, and one 1 min effort.

For time trials I'll warm up around 30 min. First ten minutes very easy + high cadence. Then I do five minutes of tempo (slightly below TT pace) then another five minutes rest, then two minutes VERY HARD (at or slightly above TT pace). Then I rest untill the half hour is up -- another eight minutes. This feels like way more than enough for me.

Personally, I feel that warm-up is a bit overrated. Actually I think a lot of modern training principles are overrated. If you're getting dropped or your legs feel like lead, it's not the warm-up, it's that you're not good enough. If you start a race without a warm up, you'll be warmed up in about 6 minutes -- maybe less.

- Maurizio
Maurizio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-03, 10:26 PM   #4
roadbuzz
Just ride.
 
roadbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: C-ville, Va
Bikes:
Posts: 3,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I'd be curious, too. Because I was planning a warmup almost identical to styk's. The race I'm entering is only 30 miles, and it's cat 5... both of which mean they'll probably be going all out from the very start. Unlike Maurizio, who has the benefit of youth, and carefully selected parents, I'm gonna need every edge I can get.
roadbuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-03, 05:42 PM   #5
velo
The Female Enduro
 
velo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Pennsylvania, United States of America
Bikes:
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rainman,

Warm-up is really a personal thing. Also, it depends on the type of race you're going to be racing in. One thing that is definite , however, warming up is a necesity . I really don't care what anyone else tells you. Try going and riding any race without a warmup. Ride the same race with a warmup. If the conditions are otherwise the same, you will always see an improvement with a warmup. Riding before a race is your way to get your body up and running, and getting oxygenated blood to your muscles.

The best thing is to experiment with different warmups and find what works for you. As a benchmark, at the end of your warmup, you should have a least a little moisture on your skin, and your legs should feel open and tingly, not stiff and tired.

Depending on the race, the longer or shorter the warmup will be. If you're racing in a criterium that is pretty much going to be pushing it from the gun, your warmup will have to be more thorough, maybe with a few light 15sec. sprints in a total of 30minutes spinning. If it is a long road race, where the pace will be steadily difficult, maybe just 20minutes will be enough for you. Time trials get tricky, and you'll definitely want to experiment. You might want to start off with 30minutes at tempo, and then go from there.

To sum that all up, the shorter and more intense the race, the longer and more intense of a warmup you need. For instance, when I go to a track race, I ride 35 laps. I then stretch, do jumps. Rest. Then, I do 1-2 sprints.

Again, I'd just like to make my point clear; you need a warmup that works for you, before any sort of race. Experiment with different approaches. See which approach works. After which one did you feel the best and the most ready to go?

Good-luck Rainman!
velo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-03, 06:12 PM   #6
fubar5
0^0
 
fubar5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Posts: 4,056
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Maurizio
Hey all.

I don't bother for Warm-Up's for any Road Race longer than 30 miles (and that's all of my road races...).

Oooh somebody pinch me..Your the kind of rider that gives racing a bad rep. Nobody likes a loud hero/achiever.

RainmanP, high cadence intervals do the trick for me. I usually do a couple around 120 rpm..It sounds stupid, but it works for me. Of course, I haven't done any "real" races yet, and none of my "practice" races have been over 30 miles..So I guess I probably don't know what I'm talking about..I'm just a poser who wears pro jerseys.
__________________
Booyah!!
fubar5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-03, 04:08 PM   #7
Styk33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks, CA USA
Bikes: 96' DeRose SLX, '04 Cervelo P2K, ~'80 Schwin converted to fixie, '04 Jamis Nova
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally posted by Maurizio

Quote:
I don't bother for Warm-Up's for any Road Race longer than 30 miles (and that's all of my road races...).
I have heard that from about 6 or so people. They all say the pace is slower in the beginning of the longer races to warm up.
__________________
Reverend Dr. Jay
MySpace
Styk33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-03, 06:25 PM   #8
Maurizio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Outside Boston
Bikes:
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Oooh somebody pinch me..Your the kind of rider that gives racing a bad rep. Nobody likes a loud hero/achiever.
Oh come on... give me a break.

I'm not some sort of wannabe hero/achiever as you put it. I have to train too you know. That remark about no warm-up for long road races is the HONEST truth, and I'm not the only one who does this.

Unless you'll have to contest with a steep climb that will be raced hard at the very begining of a race, you don't need to spend time warming up for some 3 hour race - or 1.5 hour race for that matter.

It's insulting that you say this suggestion of mine makes me the "kind of rider that gives racing a bad rep." If my suggestion makes me give racers a bad rep, then ALL higher category racers give racing a bad rep. Do you see Tour riders warming up for another six hour stage? No. They have the first three hours to do that, unless they plan on breaking early. I give racing a bad rep? Please...

Yes Styk33, those people you heard from are correct.

- Maurizio
Maurizio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-03, 07:13 PM   #9
Styk33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks, CA USA
Bikes: 96' DeRose SLX, '04 Cervelo P2K, ~'80 Schwin converted to fixie, '04 Jamis Nova
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do not think Maurizio is giving racers a bad rep. My personal opinion is most races are asses. Maurizio is at a minimum one step above the people I have tried to speak with. He responds, most just turn up there nose at you.

Warming up seems to be like winter clothes for riding. Everyone has there own style and method like velo mentioned.
__________________
Reverend Dr. Jay
MySpace
Styk33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-03, 04:11 AM   #10
nferyn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gistel, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Maurizio
Oh come on... give me a break.
...
Unless you'll have to contest with a steep climb that will be raced hard at the very begining of a race, you don't need to spend time warming up for some 3 hour race - or 1.5 hour race for that matter.
...
- Maurizio
If you think you don't need to warm up for a 3hr race, I suggest you come to Belgium and enter a local 'kermiskoers' (Elite without contract or U23). You would be surprised at how fast they start and without a proper warm up, you'd be dropped by the pack after 5 kms.

On the other hand, I'm not familiar with the racing scene in the US, so maybe it's not necessary over there

Anyone can shed any light on these country differences?

niek
nferyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-03, 10:18 AM   #11
fubar5
0^0
 
fubar5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Posts: 4,056
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Maurizio
Oh come on... give me a break.

I'm not some sort of wannabe hero/achiever as you put it. I give racing a bad rep? Please...

- Maurizio
uh huh.

Read your posts from a lower to earth point of view.
__________________
Booyah!!
fubar5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-03, 08:04 PM   #12
fubar5
0^0
 
fubar5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Posts: 4,056
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's something I got from my new ebook RainmanP.

5
CHAPTER 2
Warming Up for Top Performance
his concept in a nutshell: Get your body ready before you ask it to perform.
Why have a consistent warm-up routine? Why isn’t it sufficient merely to spin easily for the
first few minutes of a ride?
A structured warm-up accomplishes several important things:
• It raises body temperature. Sweating means that your muscles are warm, loose and
relaxed. There’s some evidence that higher body temperature thins bodily fluids, lessening
strain on joints and the heart.
• It reduces initial levels of muscular stress. If you’ve ever had to go hard on the bike
without a warm-up—like when a group ride rages out of the parking lot—you know how your
legs burn for the first couple of minutes. A good warm-up, on the other hand, alerts your systems
that it’s going to get harder soon.
• It conserves glycogen. Fast-from-the-gun workouts or races dip into your precious
supplies of glycogen, your muscles’ primary fuel. A slower start allows you to begin by burning
a higher percentage of fat, conserving glycogen for when you really need it.
6
• It opens capillaries. A warm-up dilates the capillaries that allow your blood to bathe
muscle cells with oxygen and nutrients. More blood flow means more fuel and a betterperforming
engine.
• It compensates for aging. The older you are, the more you need a warm-up. When
we were kids, we could go full speed right off the couch when a friend wanted to run pass
routes in the back yard. That’s not how it works as we age, and we’re more apt to get injured,
too. The quality of our training suffers if we don’t prepare for hard work.
For all these reasons, the warm-up is a vital part of each ride.
TIP! Because many of the workouts in this book require
high intensity that approaches race effort, a
warm-up is crucial to help you perform well and avoid
injury. Get in the habit of using the same warm-up routine
before every hard workout. I include a sample
protocol below.
SHORTER MAY BE BETTER
For years, I used a fairly long warm-up routine before time trials and short road races. I patterned
it after what I understood top riders do. I’d spin around for 20 minutes, ride a few hills
hard, do some sprints, and top it off with several minutes at TT pace.
But sometimes this made me feel drained for the event itself. When the crunch came in a
road race or I needed a strong final 10K in a time trial, there wasn’t enough in my tank. I’d
used too much energy in my warm-up.
Then I read that England’s Chris Boardman, the world hour record holder, had switched from
hour-long warm-ups to a focused routine of 15-20 minutes.
I tried it and developed an abbreviated routine like the one described below. It worked great
and left me plenty of energy for the race itself.
Most riders do long warm-ups for the wrong reason. In fact, warm-ups are often used to calm
pre-race nerves. Riders get to the race early and register, but then they’re too antsy to sit
calmly in the car and review their race strategy.
Instead, nervous energy pressures them into a long, “pro-style” warm-up. Too often it’s unfocused
and mainly burns precious reserves. When they get to the starting line, they feel flat
rather than fiery.
A WARM-UP FOR TRAINING AND RACING
Here’s a 20-minute warm-up routine that you can use for any event. Practice it during the first
20 minutes of each training ride that will include hard efforts or long distance. By beginning
7
tough workouts with the same warm-up, your body will become accustomed to the routine
and what’s coming next.
TIME (minutes) TECHNIQUE
0-4
Spin easily in a low gear. Begin at 75 rpm
and gradually build to 90 rpm. Keep heart
rate below 70% of max.
5-11
Gradually increase gear and effort. Shift
up every 2 minutes. Keep cadence at 90-
100 rpm. In the last minute you should be
breathing steadily, sweating lightly and
your heart rate should be about 80% of
max.
12-14
Do 3 controlled sprints. Using a moderate
gear, stand, accelerate to 110 rpm, sit,
and spin up to the point where your hips
begin to rock. Then gradually slow until
back to 90 rpm. This sequence should
take about 20 seconds. Repeat 3 times
with 40 seconds of easy spinning between
sprints.
15-17
Do a 3-minute interval: Use a gear that
you can turn at 90 rpm without pedaling
all-out. Stand to accelerate, then sit and
hold 90 rpm for 3 minutes. Power output
should be equal to a training time trial of
about 30 minutes. Your heart rate should
rise to your lactate threshold in the last 15
seconds.
18-20
Spin easily in a very low gear. At 20 minutes,
your heart rate should be down to
120 or lower, with breathing stabilized and
legs feeling lively.
Although this warm-up is based on the successful routines of top riders, it won’t be ideal for
everyone. Warming up is highly individual. You may need a 60-minute warm-up to perform at
your peak, but most cyclists will do better with a significantly shorter session. Experiment to
find the length that works for you.
CAUTION! Don’t use this routine at the start of recovery
rides. It requires too much effort. Instead, gradually
increase cadence and gearing until your heart rate is
about 70 percent of max. Don’t go any harder than
that.
8
At some events, particularly city criteriums, the surrounding roads can be so traffic-choked
that warming up on them is dangerous or ineffective. The solution is to warm up on a trainer.
This may even be required by the race promoter.
For example, a few years ago, organizers of the Colorado time trial championship faced opposition
from residents of the small town where the race was to be held. The locals could
tolerate riders on the road chosen for the TT, but they objected to us warming up on town
streets. So, we had to use trainers or risk losing the race venue.
Most of us complained at first. How can we get a good warm-up on a trainer? But once we
tried it, the benefits became obvious:
• There’s no risk of a flat tire from road debris.
• You never leave your car, so help is right there if you have a problem.
• If the start time is changed for some reason, you’re within hearing distance of the PA
announcer.
• You can use headphones with inspiring music, something that’s dangerous while riding
on the road.
• You can cope better with weather. If it’s cool, there’s no windchill on the trainer. If it’s
hot, cold drinks are as close as your ice chest. Raining? You can wear a poncho as you
warm up, or pedal under the tailgate of a van or SUV. At least you’ll stay dry until the race
starts.
• The warm-up routine outlined above can be done just as effectively on a trainer as on
the road.
COOLING DOWN
The final few minutes of training are important, too. After a hard ride or race, don’t immediately
hop off your bike, panting and sweating. Instead, reverse the initial 5 minutes of the
warm-up routine.
I live in a small town, so when I cross the city limit on the way home, I shift to the small ring,
take a few deep breaths and spin through the residential streets. There’s a small hill half a
mile from my house, but I resist the temptation to do just one more hard bit over the top. In
fact, I often choose a street that goes around the hill in order to cool down more effectively.
Some riders live atop climbs that make cooling down difficult. One example is my 1996 Race
Across America teammate, Pete Penseyres, whose house crowns an 800-vertical-foot hill in
southern California. He cools down by standing and “walking” up the hill with a slow cadence
in a low gear, keeping his heart rate relatively low.
__________________
Booyah!!
fubar5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-03, 06:47 PM   #13
Styk33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks, CA USA
Bikes: 96' DeRose SLX, '04 Cervelo P2K, ~'80 Schwin converted to fixie, '04 Jamis Nova
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks fubar, that is helpful, I will try that before a couple of my training rides and see how it does.

I only had 20 minutes on the trainer for the race this morning and I felt okay. A heck of a lot better than two weeks ago.
__________________
Reverend Dr. Jay
MySpace
Styk33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42 PM.