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  1. #1
    Just ride. roadbuzz's Avatar
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    What kind of tires are they using?

    I assume the TdFers are using some kind of tubulers, and I read somewhere they got a new set every day. So, how come so many flats? In the TTT didn't Julich (Credit Agricole) flat (not that it hurt them much)? And didn't one of Telekom's riders flat as well? Then today, stage 8, Vinokourov (Telekom) flatted out of todays phenomenal breakway.

    Is somebody throwing tacks on the road? If not, I think I'd sacrifice a couple of grams and get a tire that would consistantly last, say, 100 miles.

  2. #2
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    Tyres are tyres and they will always go falt. That is the way life is. No one tyre out there is made to be 100% flat resistant. Many things cause flat tyres. From small rocks to piches.
    Xavier Cintron - www.bullteksports.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member pat5319's Avatar
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    Many are using Michelin clinchers, most of the sewups/tubulars are Vittorias
    I have a tour guide somewhere that lists all used, I''ll update later.
    Ride Cool
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Trekaholic's Avatar
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    Which Michelin? Axial Pros?

    TIA

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    Probably not. Even when a team has tyres badged by a certain manufacturer, they are often specially made tyres, not the same as you or I could buy. From what I've been told, the TdF tubular Vittorias are actually hand-sewn Veloflexes, badged with Vitt brands. Nothing on these bikes is off-the-shelf.
    Je vais à vélo, donc je suis!

  6. #6
    Senior Member pat5319's Avatar
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    Probably next year's or the year after's Axial Pro or it's replacement. A lot of the stuff the Pros use in cycling and other sports is experimental or specially made, even made sometimes by a supplier's competitor with the supplier's paint job and trade-name applied.
    Ride the good stuff
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    Tyres are tyres and they will always go falt. That is the way life is. No one tyre out there is made to be 100% flat resistant. Many things cause flat tyres. From small rocks to piches.
    Xa: out here in soCal, wirtually the biggest market area for bicycling (did You forget that?) the biggest problem == thorns. And all the above is NO BULL....

  8. #8
    @ Checkmate Cycling jbhowat's Avatar
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    Many are using Michelin clinchers, most of the sewups/tubulars are Vittorias
    I have a tour guide somewhere that lists all used, I''ll update later.
    Ride Cool
    Does anyone have a list of what everyone uses? I thought most used Tubulars, but who uses clinchers and what kinds?
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Trekaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molten
    Xa: out here in soCal, wirtually the biggest market area for bicycling (did You forget that?) the biggest problem == thorns. And all the above is NO BULL....
    Thorns? You call that tough? A couple of years ago I was riding the famed "Hotter 'N Hell Hundred" up
    in Wichita Falls, TX. 105 F with 98% Humidity and 20 mph winds. I actually got a flat when I ran over a barb from a barb-wire fence! And if that doesn't get you, the mesquite thorns that the wind blows do.
    The older I get the faster I was.

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    Teams seem very secretive about the actual tires they use in a given stage of a road race. I suspect that it may be that they are sometimes using a tire, OTHER than the tire supplied by their "official" tire sponsor. Comparing photos of actual races with photos from sponsor's ads: the tires don't match.

    I have read that some teams will use the same set of tires for five or six stages, if they is in good shape. Yikes. Tossing a $100 pair of tires after just a week. Maybe the Pro teams need to start selling old gear on E-Bay. Up for auction: "The actual tires Lance used to win Stage 11 of the Tour de France - personally autographed".

    Heck, even cheapskate 'ol me might be tempted to bid on those tires.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhowat
    Does anyone have a list of what everyone uses? I thought most used Tubulars, but who uses clinchers and what kinds?


    Go to the team's homepage. It should list the tyre sponsor amongst the team's backers.

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    @ Checkmate Cycling jbhowat's Avatar
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    Problem is a lot of them (including cyclingnews as far as i can tell) list only "Michelin" or "Vittoria" etc. most tire companies make both, how do you know then.
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    Team websites list the name of the company that has paid to be their listed tire sponsor. That may not be the tire they actually ride in a given race. An article about Paris-Roubaix said only a limited number of wheels and tires were tough enough to have even a chance last the entire day.

    Pro teams are good at taking money from a sponsor, and then riding something else. One year, Lance had a custom time trial bike from "Brand X" repainted with Trek colors.

    Cycling Plus says some Euro Pros are sponsored by makers of carbon frame bikes, and the carbon frames bikes are featured in advertising. Yet, some riders chose to ride on aluminum frames, after pocketing the sponsor's money to "rave" about the carbon models.

    A Trek catalog showed Lance's bike with Bontrager clinchers. A US Postal ad showed Lance's bike with Hutchinson clinchers. I don't think Lance was riding on either of those tires.

    It is probably just as well that it is so unclear which tires Pros use in races. If folks knew for sure, they would run out and put them on their bikes...forgetting that the "team car" won't be following them around all day with a spare wheel.

  14. #14
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    Teams seem very secretive about the actual tires they use in a given stage of a road race. I suspect that it may be that they are sometimes using a tire, OTHER than the tire supplied by their "official" tire sponsor. Comparing photos of actual races with photos from sponsor's ads: the tires don't match.

    I have read that some teams will use the same set of tires for five or six stages, if they is in good shape. Yikes. Tossing a $100 pair of tires after just a week. Maybe the Pro teams need to start selling old gear on E-Bay. Up for auction: "The actual tires Lance used to win Stage 11 of the Tour de France - personally autographed".

    Heck, even cheapskate 'ol me might be tempted to bid on those tires.

    Yeah, real secretive...

    You know, if you go to Europe to watch a lower level pro race, like a Circuit de la Sarthe or a Tour of the Basque Country, you can walk up to the team bus where the bikes are sitting and look at them.
    In the US at a pro race, they practically welcome you to come look...

    The Hutchinson clinchers you mentioned.....Armstrong trains on the clinchers, races on the tubulars.
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 02-23-05 at 04:46 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    Yeah, real secretive...

    You know, if you go to Europe to watch a lower level pro race, like a Circuit de la Sarthe or a Tour of the Basque Country, you can walk up to the team bus where the bikes are sitting and look at them.
    In the US at a pro race, they practically welcome you to come look...

    The Hutchinson clinchers you mentioned.....Armstrong trains on the clinchers, races on the tubulars.

    Correct. Too many conspiracy theorists around here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    Yeah, real secretive...

    You know, if you go to Europe to watch a lower level pro race, like a Circuit de la Sarthe or a Tour of the Basque Country, you can walk up to the team bus where the bikes are sitting and look at them.
    In the US at a pro race, they practically welcome you to come look...

    The Hutchinson clinchers you mentioned.....Armstrong trains on the clinchers, races on the tubulars.
    I guess they are not secretive enough. Photos taken at the Paris-Roubaix and Spring Classics show teams covering up the labels on tires with "Magic Markers". Other articles indicate that "false" labels are put on tires and other components to please sponsors.

    I guess there is nothing "deceptive" about spending thousands of dollars on catalogs listing "tire A", taking sponsorship money from "tire company "B" and then riding on "magic marker" tires from company "C". How could that be "deceptive", given that any consumer can fly to Paris the night before the Paris-Roubaix and make a personal inspection of the tires on a given bike. And attempt to read through the magic marker covering the brand markings.

    The Trek publicity photos show a tire with red stripes on a Bontrager wheel with aero spokes. The actual race photos for the 2003 Spring Classics show Trek with a blackwall tire, no red stripes, and a wheel with 32 conventional spokes. Not the "advertised" tire. Not the "advertised" wheel. The mega-buck crap that Trek is peddling to you and me is not tough enough for Paris-Roubaix.

    The bikes that "you can walk up and see" the night before the race are NOT always equipped the same as the bikes when they were going over the Pave. On the pave, sharp eyes would notice that the pretty 23mm tires have been replaced by big, beefy 28mm blackwalls. The original brand marking had been covered with magic marker, and a bright, clean "Hutchinson" sticker applied to the tire.

    Chainstays are wider than "stock" bikes, to make room for bigger tires. Stock forks replaced with beefier forks. Yeah, there are "no secrets" in the pro peloton.

    Is it deceptive to have different stuff on the bike during the race, compared with the equipment shown in the catalogs and publicity photos and "endorsement" advertisements? Only if there are people who are silly enough to think that the Trek they buy at the neighborhood LBS is "identical" to the bike that Lance rides when there is money to be made.
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 02-25-05 at 06:16 AM.

  17. #17
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    For the record, though they're labeled "Axial Pros", we call them Axel Rose. Only because it's funny.

  18. #18
    Roadie otoman's Avatar
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    Wow, this thread is doing a great Lazarus impersonation....
    ___________________________________
    Hunger means you are winning

  19. #19
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    I guess they are not secretive enough. Photos taken at the Paris-Roubaix and Spring Classics show teams covering up the labels on tires with "Magic Markers". Other articles indicate that "false" labels are put on tires and other components to please sponsors.

    I guess there is nothing "deceptive" about spending thousands of dollars on catalogs listing "tire A", taking sponsorship money from "tire company "B" and then riding on "magic marker" tires from company "C". How could that be "deceptive", given that any consumer can fly to Paris the night before the Paris-Roubaix and make a personal inspection of the tires on a given bike. And can read through the magic markers.

    The Trek link goes to a pretty publicity style photo showing a tire with red stripes and a wheel with aero spokes. The actual race photos for the 2003 Spring Classics show Trek with a blackwall tire, no red stripes, and a wheel with 32 conventional spokes. Not the "advertised" tire. Not the "advertised" wheel.

    When was the last time Trek had a publicity photo or catalog of an OCLV series bike and the wheels had 32 spokes? The "race time" photo shows that the Bontrager wheels have been removed, and wheels strong enough to complete the race had been substituted. So, which photos should we trust?
    Sheesh..

    First off, Trek pub photos will be taken with Bontrager components on them. Wanna see what Lance rides, go to Georgia, walk up to him and look. He rides HEDs when time trialing, uses a Deda Newton stem instead of the Bontrager XXXlite they put on the production bikes...Remember the Trek labeled Litespeed TT bike in '99? Or the Seven-11 Huffy that was actually a Serotta? Or the Caloi that Motorola rode that was actually a Merckx? I've got more....

    BUT...when you see a photo of a bike on the tech site at cyclingnews, it's a race outfitted bike...stunning to see that Gilberto rides clinchers....so does Cuenego
    There's a pub photo on the cover of the new Cannondale catalogue with Cuenego on a Six/13...if you look at the Giro stage photos shows him on, a, ready?? a CAAD8. You can tell by the head tube

    I used to race at CATII and got stuff for free on a fairly regular basis...guess what? The free stuff was not always what the jersey said...

    The point is it's not a secret...walk up and look at what they are riding.

    The sponsor prefers to be on the podium, even if Hutchinson's the tire when it says "Bontrager"...

    BTW..sometimes the magic marker comes out because the team is renogotiating a contract with a sponsor or has not gotten a new sponsor's product yet and the old one's not paying anymore.

    Not everything's a conspiracy....

    Lance just says he's riding Dura Ace, but it's really a 24 speed trip Sora.....

    Besides, when they are riding in conditions like this, whatever works is best
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 02-24-05 at 04:12 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=divekrb]Just cus it says Viagra on the NASCAR hood...and "stock cars" aren't even close. Used to be until the money got bigger.{QUOTE**

    Yeah, what's a carburetor?

    Reality is that the bikes and products you see in the peleton are a year at most removed from what you can go buy at your LBS. That's not true in most types of racing.
    With my Mavic SL's I am looking forward to trying tubeless clinchers....some teams are running them now...if you look at the link, below on tire specs, your point is made here in that Trek shows the Madone SSL in their catalogue now..last summer they were not sure.
    Trying to get one is a different issue, however...
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 02-25-05 at 03:58 AM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadbuzz
    I assume the TdFers are using some kind of tubulers, and I read somewhere they got a new set every day. So, how come so many flats? In the TTT didn't Julich (Credit Agricole) flat (not that it hurt them much)? And didn't one of Telekom's riders flat as well? Then today, stage 8, Vinokourov (Telekom) flatted out of todays phenomenal breakway.

    Is somebody throwing tacks on the road? If not, I think I'd sacrifice a couple of grams and get a tire that would consistantly last, say, 100 miles.
    To answer your question, many of these guys ride on 19's...you probably have a 700x23 for example...you can typically buy a 700x20 but it's harder to find thinner tires, mostly because the buying public cannot afford to spend $$ and get a flat a week...even in tubulars, Conti makes a 700x22 that you will typically find at Performance or your LBS...Vredestein's Fortezza tubular is a 700x21...obviously, the thinner the tire the less rolling resistance, but you lose a ton of durability and a pro team really does not care about that..

    Example...note the tire specs
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 02-25-05 at 04:00 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    To answer your question, many of these guys ride on 19's...
    Where does anyone ride on a 19? On a wood track? In a time trial? The typical setup for the Paris-Roubaix had riders using 24mm tires in front and 28mm tires in back. Some riders had to use modified bikes, because the "stock" bikes were a tight fit for 28mm tires.

    A 19 can have advantages in a high speed time trial due to slightly less air resistance. A typical 19 can have MORE rolling resistance than a typical size 23. I doubt you will see many guys in the Tour de France using anything smaller than a size 23, except in a short time trial.

    But, as discussed earlier in this thread, the only way to know for sure, would be to make an inspection of Lance's bike from six inches away just after he finishes a stage. With a set of calipers.

  23. #23
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    Where does anyone ride on a 19? On a wood track? In a time trial? The typical setup for the Paris-Roubaix had riders using 24mm tires in front and 28mm tires in back. Some riders had to use modified bikes, because the "stock" bikes were a tight fit for 28mm tires.

    A 19 can have advantages in a high speed time trial due to slightly less air resistance. A typical 19 can have MORE rolling resistance than a typical size 23. I doubt you will see many guys in the Tour de France using anything smaller than a size 23, except in a short time trial.
    I just have to chuckle at every post, Alan....

    Paris Roubaix is not the "road"...it's one freakin' race that teams make HUGE HUGE changes to their bikes to ride. Saeco actually added a Headshock to their road bikes year before last...

    Ummmm Lance rides a 19 in a tubular....there are others. You appear to have a lot more time than me, so check around.
    Cuz it's pretty apparent when you start asking and answering your own rhetorical questions, then making a setup for one race the standard for all races that your knowledge is lacking here...

    Didja look at the tire spec link, or just start typing?

    Enjoy...

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    Cycling News posted a photo of the rear wheel and rear tire of Lance's bike for its July 7th, 2004 "Tech News", showing Lance's bike, as used in Stage 3 of the 2004 Tour De France.

    This is the wheel setup USPS used not just in the Tour De France, but also in the Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, and Paris-Roubaix. A custom-made wheel (not sold to the public by Bontrager) with a beefy 400 gram rim, 21.5mm wide, with zero dish, with 32 straight gauge spokes. A beefy tire, that in the photo appears to be about 25mm in size. USPS is not gonna send its riders down a rough stretch of road on a tiny 19mm tire mounted on an ulta-light rim.

    Someone wanting the ride the exact wheel Lance road in Stage 3 of the TdF shouldn't bother going to their Trek dealer. This wheel is not for sale by Bontrager. Interestingly, it is similar the "standard" wheels used in the Tour de France back in the '60's. Those also were built with 32 spokes or 36 spokes, and had close to zero dish. Not the pretty 14 spoke mega-buck wheels shown in catalogs.

    I have been using 32 spoke wheels on my Trek OCLV for the past five years or so. The penalty in added weight is small. The benefits of a wheel that stays true on any kind of road make up for a few extra grams of weight.

    Roadwarrior, you first claim Paris-Roubaix was not a "road race" and THAT is why USPS chose not to use ultra-light wheels and 19mm tires in those races. I suppose you will next claim that you have personally raced in the Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, and the Tour de France, and those races are not road races. What is in your crack pipe?

    Is the advice you give customers at your bike store as goofy as the advice you post here? You should put the name of your store in your posts. Your customers deserve fair warning.






    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...Tech36_LA_trek
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 02-26-05 at 09:19 AM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    Roadwarrior, you say Paris-Roubaix is not a road race? Thanks for your always interesting posts. Goofy, silly, but interesting.

    Cycling News posted a photo of the rear wheel and rear tire of Lance's bike for its July 7th, 2004 "Tech News", showing Lance's bike, as used in Stage 3 of the 2004 Tour De France. (Roadwarrior - the Tour de France is a "road race").

    Same setup as USPS used for the Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, and Paris-Roubaix. A custom-made wheel (not sold to the public) with a beefy 400 gram rim, 21.5mm wide, with zero dish, with 32 straight gauge spokes. A beefy tire, that in the photo appears to be about 25mm in size. USPS is not gonna send its riders down a rough stretch of road on a tiny 19mm tire mounted on an ulta-light rim.

    Someone wanting the ride the exact wheel Lance road in Stage 3 of the TdF shouldn't bother going to their Trek dealer. This wheel is not for sale. Interestingly, it resembles the "standard" wheels used in the Tour back in the '60's. Those also had 32 spokes or 36 spokes, and had close to zero dish. After fifty years annual "advances" in technology, when the going gets tough, it is the "old school" technology that folks trust.




    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...Tech36_LA_trek

    Dude....Paris Roubaix (which I have actually seen live and ridden pieces of, have you? as well as having RIDDEN much of the Tour of Flanders and Ghent-Wevelgem because I LIVED there) is special due to the roads they use. You know exactly what I mean....and that special wheel was used on how MANY stages?

    Second, I can get those rims and have wheels built just like those w/o a problem....by the guy that laughed when he saw your Sora posts....who's best friend may have, indeed, built some of the wheels in your link.

    But I don't need them...since you "get passed by rollerbladers" neither do you.

    And if you go back and look at the post to which you responded, you proved my point. If you have a good wheelbuilder they can get and build you anything you want, any way you want. To want to walk into a bike shop to buy a stock wheel like that, is laugable.
    The point is that nobody would want a wheel like this because it is built for a particular reason, like a CAAD7 with a different headtube to accomodate a Headshok.

    So when you see that someone rides a 19 tubular, that does not mean that they ride it in Paris-Roubaix. Or in stage 3 of the Tour de France. That is laughable. If you believe that, you are VERY VERY naive.

    I love your posts...they make me smile.

    This is like people that think because they own Nike golf clubs, they think they are playing with the same clubs as Tiger Woods...
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 02-26-05 at 05:27 AM.

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