Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-04-07, 12:23 PM   #1
Kadowaki
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kadowaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Heavy bike for downhill?

I know there is a minimum weight limit for bikes. On this clip Ullrich changes bikes at the peak of the last climb. Is there any rule against riding a heavy bike downhill? What are the restrictions to allowing pros to switch bikes during a race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfLQVNavI8Q&NR
Kadowaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 12:25 PM   #2
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It was switched because the bike he used going up was so light it would have had very little in the way of handling characteristics on the way down. There is a general minimum weight, though I don't know what it is, something ridiculous.
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 12:37 PM   #3
DrPete 
Dirt-riding heretic
 
DrPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadowaki
I know there is a minimum weight limit for bikes. On this clip Ullrich changes bikes at the peak of the last climb. Is there any rule against riding a heavy bike downhill? What are the restrictions to allowing pros to switch bikes during a race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfLQVNavI8Q&NR
I'm guessing that the miniscule advantage of adding a couple pounds to the bike would be offset by stopping to switch bikes.

The UCI weight minimum is 6.8kg, or 15lbs.
__________________
"Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."
DrPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 12:38 PM   #4
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Come to think of it.. some of their climbing bikes have different geometries as well.
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 01:33 PM   #5
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The rules on this change over time based on abuse. At one point it wsa illegal to change bikes during the race except for bike failure. One rider used a light bike to climb and some creative use of wire cutters to get his failure. There are rules about getting food and water during climbs in part to prevent weighting the bike for the decent. Not sure if there are bike max weights. If riders start using specialty bikes for decending, as in weight, not handling characteristics, you can bet they will be prohibited.

Side note: The U.S. won the bobsled in one of the early winter olympics. They did it by having 4 huge guys so the sled and riders were a couple of hundred pounds heavier than other sleds. Afterwards the rules were changed to have a maximum weight of sled and riders.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 01:51 PM   #6
dmotoguy
Edificating
 
dmotoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
Bikes: Spooky + Sachs
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the difference shouldnt be that much at all.. the extra weight will only help directly after the hill, carrying the momentum on the flats, and the additional few pounds will do next to nothing.
dmotoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 01:55 PM   #7
Kris Flatlander
Senior Member
 
Kris Flatlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six 1, Cannondale F29er 1, Cannondale XTJ, Guru Pista, Lemond Limoge
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It'd almost be smarter to just hand Ulrich a water bottle filled with lead pellets or something for his free cage and then swap it at the bottom. This is assuming that the "food rule" didn't occure at that time. Wonder how much a lead water bottle would weigh anyways, 5 lbs?
Kris Flatlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 02:53 PM   #8
lxpatterson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 'Sauga, ON
Bikes: Bianchi SL2 centuar custom, 85 Trek 720
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ahh old tricky dick.

how do you know he didnt just have a shifter misalignment or a brake thing and maybe that's why he switched.
lxpatterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 04:45 PM   #9
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316
Posts: 4,833
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm willing to bet this is the reason: he was using his deep-dish LW's or ADA's on the climb, and wanted to switch to low-pro wheels for the descent. Much easier to handle in the wind coming up from the valleys. It would be far quicker to switch bikes than wheels in this situation.

About climbing vs. regular racing bikes: they wouldn't ride bikes that are significantly different. They might have their stem another cm higher and maybe a cm shorter for climbing days, for a SLIGHTLY more upright position, but the rest of it doesn't change much at all. Their position is already dialed in to achieve the most efficient and powerful use of energy.
Duke of Kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 06:18 PM   #10
Snuffleupagus
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
Posts: 4,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Flatlander
It'd almost be smarter to just hand Ulrich a water bottle filled with lead pellets or something for his free cage and then swap it at the bottom. This is assuming that the "food rule" didn't occure at that time. Wonder how much a lead water bottle would weigh anyways, 5 lbs?
Oh oh oh I know the answer

Pb (lead) has a density of 11.35g/cc. A 24oz water bottle has about 710cc.

Therefore a 24oz water bottle filled with lead would weigh ~8060g. Or about 17.75lbs. A coupla those bad boys, and you'd be haulin' butt.
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 07:13 PM   #11
brianappleby
Senior Member?
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Denver
Bikes: orbea onix, Cervelo SLC, Specialzed Allez, Cervelo P3 Alu
Posts: 1,975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
just for the sake of argument, I'd like to note that a heavier bike/rider combo will skid out sooner in curves, and would thus have to brake sooner. Since pros frequently push their tires to the limit of traction, this may be a consideration of the descent is twisty.
brianappleby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 07:13 PM   #12
Everest
Senior Member
 
Everest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Iowa City, Iowa / Island Park, Idaho
Bikes: Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 03 Gary Fisher Tassjara, Quattro Assi Scandium
Posts: 778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Flatlander
It'd almost be smarter to just hand Ulrich a water bottle filled with lead pellets or something for his free cage and then swap it at the bottom. This is assuming that the "food rule" didn't occure at that time. Wonder how much a lead water bottle would weigh anyways, 5 lbs?
Actually this happened in the 50's, Robic had water bottles filled with molten lead.
__________________
Road: Quattro Assi Scandium w/ SRAM Rival and Rolf Echelon's
Mountain: 2005 Specialized Enduro Comp
2003 Gary Fisher Tassajara

Last edited by Everest; 01-04-07 at 07:23 PM.
Everest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 07:18 PM   #13
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Oh oh oh I know the answer

Pb (lead) has a density of 11.35g/cc. A 24oz water bottle has about 710cc.

Therefore a 24oz water bottle filled with lead would weigh ~8060g. Or about 17.75lbs. A coupla those bad boys, and you'd be haulin' butt.
Answer surprised me a bit, but it is right. You did it the hard way though. Since a 24 OZ water bottle is 1 1/2 lbs of water and the density of water is 1 g/cc you just needed to multiply 1.5 x 11.35 to get the answer.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 07:31 PM   #14
pinky
Ink-Stained Wretch
 
pinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Holyoke, MA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd venture he switched to low-profile rims with alloy brake surfaces. Those deep dishes are probably ADAs which weren't holy renowned for perfect braking surfaces especially back when carbon brake pads weren't really much better than cork. Maybe even a clincher so he has less chance of melting the glue off the rim.
pinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-07, 11:27 PM   #15
Kris Flatlander
Senior Member
 
Kris Flatlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six 1, Cannondale F29er 1, Cannondale XTJ, Guru Pista, Lemond Limoge
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Oh oh oh I know the answer

Pb (lead) has a density of 11.35g/cc. A 24oz water bottle has about 710cc.

Therefore a 24oz water bottle filled with lead would weigh ~8060g. Or about 17.75lbs. A coupla those bad boys, and you'd be haulin' butt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest
Actually this happened in the 50's, Robic had water bottles filled with molten lead.
That's really interesting actually, an absolute ton of weight if you fill up both cages. Wouldn't want to forget those in before the next climb ! Thanks for the calculations Snuffleupagus, looks like it's a tad more than 5 lbs.
Kris Flatlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-07, 03:17 PM   #16
roadgator
raodmaster shaman
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: G-ville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinky
I'd venture he switched to low-profile rims with alloy brake surfaces. Those deep dishes are probably ADAs which weren't holy renowned for perfect braking surfaces especially back when carbon brake pads weren't really much better than cork. Maybe even a clincher so he has less chance of melting the glue off the rim.

that would be my guess. the wheel he went up on might have been too sketchy to descend on. were the uphill only lightweights around then?
roadgator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:46 AM.