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Old 01-16-07, 08:22 AM   #1
patentcad
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How to destroy a pro sport 101....

To destroy our beloved sport that is:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt...v=ap&type=lgns

It really is astonishing. If the NFL or NBA managment pulled this crap, the fans would burn down their corporate offices. It's like Dick Pound & the Tour Organizers have announced a Jihad on pro cycling.

By the way if you want to watch a drug infested sport untroubled by any such misguided efforts, check out the Super Bowl next month and the World Series in October. The TV ratings will soar and the $ will flow. In the meantime the most notable cyclist in the world (Ivan Basso) can only get $2 million annually (that's like Beckham's bar tab) and he may be banned from the Tour de France AGAIN.

You can't make this stuff up. Maybe the French ARE idiots after all. At the very least they should get me some of the LeGanga they're smoking.

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Old 01-16-07, 11:30 AM   #2
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"Race director Christian Prudhomme said the investigation, in which 56 riders allegedly received given performance-enhancing drugs at a Madrid clinic, most likely won't conclude by the July 7 start of this year's tour."

The wheels of French justice grind slowly....
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Old 01-16-07, 11:37 AM   #3
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Mr. Pound's actions make so little sense that I think he's the one smokin all the Ganga.
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Old 01-16-07, 12:13 PM   #4
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Mr. Pound's actions make so little sense that I think he's the one smokin all the Ganga.
he's not smokin it, he's "testing" it


'ok that was in a pipe, now let's test it in the bong...'
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Old 01-16-07, 12:20 PM   #5
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Mr. Pound's actions make so little sense that I think he's the one smokin all the Ganga.
While it has nothing at all to do with cycling, it might explain why all the snowboarders are clean now.
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Old 01-16-07, 12:21 PM   #6
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To destroy our beloved sport that is:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt...v=ap&type=lgns

It really is astonishing. If the NFL or NBA managment pulled this crap, the fans would burn down their corporate offices. It's like Dick Pound & the Tour Organizers have announced a Jihad on pro cycling.
Prudhomme is TDF race director, not WADA. OP is not WADA. This has nothing to do with Pound, or WADA. Good example however, as there are no drugs in NFL. The American race clearly just has bigger balls.

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Originally Posted by patentcad
By the way if you want to watch a drug infested sport untroubled by any such misguided efforts, check out the Super Bowl next month and the World Series in October. The TV ratings will soar and the $ will flow. In the meantime the most notable cyclist in the world (Ivan Basso) can only get $2 million annually (that's like Beckham's bar tab) and he may be banned from the Tour de France AGAIN.
All Birrillo has to do is provide DNA to exonerate himself, but he will only do this if it doesn't involve prosecution for OP (Hmmm). Meanwhile, Ullrich's DNA sample will be tested, and if it doesn't match those blood bags, he will be exonerated.

Besides, the TDF has the largest world TV audience of any sporting event outside of the World Cup, they really don't care about US ratings (I know this is hard to believe). Just like most of the world does not watch the football "World Championship", or the "World" series of baseball. By your argument, NASCAR is good sport.
Your argument that money is more important to sport than ethics and rules is not a commonly held opinion.
Cycling does not have big, stupid, salaries, but it is one of the few sports that does not charge its spectators to watch.

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You can't make this stuff up. Maybe the French ARE idiots after all. At the very least they should get me some of the LeGanga they're smoking.
Of course the French are idiots, anyone outside of the US, or your mind, are 'idiots'. Yet Americans will flock in thousands to idiot-land every year rather than develop a decent, long-running, US Tour race. Then, they will ***** about having to follow the rules. Kind of pathetic.
I still don't see how the TDF defines the sport of cycling anyway, there are many better races, and better Tours than the TDF. Try watching some of the non-Lance spring classics, the Giro and the Vuelta.

For a better perspective, read Thompson's "The Tour de France: A Cultural History". Doping scandals have surrounded the TDF every year since the 60s. Rider protests happened as late as 1998.

Yet, the Tour gets more popular every year.
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Old 01-16-07, 12:36 PM   #7
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Uh huh...

For your statement making wardrobe...
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Old 01-16-07, 02:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DocRay
Prudhomme is TDF race director, not WADA. OP is not WADA. This has nothing to do with Pound, or WADA. Good example however, as there are no drugs in NFL. The American race clearly just has bigger balls.



All Birrillo has to do is provide DNA to exonerate himself, but he will only do this if it doesn't involve prosecution for OP (Hmmm). Meanwhile, Ullrich's DNA sample will be tested, and if it doesn't match those blood bags, he will be exonerated.

Besides, the TDF has the largest world TV audience of any sporting event outside of the World Cup, they really don't care about US ratings (I know this is hard to believe). Just like most of the world does not watch the football "World Championship", or the "World" series of baseball. By your argument, NASCAR is good sport.
Your argument that money is more important to sport than ethics and rules is not a commonly held opinion.
Cycling does not have big, stupid, salaries, but it is one of the few sports that does not charge its spectators to watch.



Of course the French are idiots, anyone outside of the US, or your mind, are 'idiots'. Yet Americans will flock in thousands to idiot-land every year rather than develop a decent, long-running, US Tour race. Then, they will ***** about having to follow the rules. Kind of pathetic.
I still don't see how the TDF defines the sport of cycling anyway, there are many better races, and better Tours than the TDF. Try watching some of the non-Lance spring classics, the Giro and the Vuelta.

For a better perspective, read Thompson's "The Tour de France: A Cultural History". Doping scandals have surrounded the TDF every year since the 60s. Rider protests happened as late as 1998.

Yet, the Tour gets more popular every year.
I agree with what you say, but I also feel that there is a right way to go about this and a wrong way. Unfortunately, it seems that many parties out there are more focused on getting as much media attention as possible (and dragging out the proceedings) than to help the sport itself.
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Old 01-16-07, 02:35 PM   #9
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>>of course the French are idiots, anyone outside of the US, or your mind, are 'idiots'.<<

Actually, just you. In fact half my family IS European, so I don't think all Europeans are that way. But the French running Le Tour make a compelling case for it. Many here would agree.

>>Yet, the Tour gets more popular every year.<<

Does it REALLY? You can't tell from rider salaries can you? If the Tour de France is such a runaway TV ratings hit, where's the dough? Not in Ivan Basso's bank account. Or ANY of the top pro riders, at least when measured against EVERY other major sport on the planet like soccer, American football, pro basketball, baseball, F1 racing, even friggin NASCAR already.

By the way, if the French don't care about US TV ratings (the largest consumer market on the globe) it would only tend to bolster the idotic French image, so you don't want to go there. I can assure you the suits @ the NFL and NBA front offices care about their TV ratings in Europe. That's called BUSINESS. Perhaps you've heard of it, they may have covered in in Macro Economics 101 in undergrad school. I'll bet you were out riding that day.
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Old 01-16-07, 02:56 PM   #10
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The irony from the Tour presentation this year was Richard Virenque was standing next to David Millar and Christophe Moreau with Johan Museeuw standing behind them. Now who's more guilty, the convicted or the accused? Basso and Ulrich et al have yet to be proven guilty, yet three of these of the four I've mentioned are convicted drug users and Museeuw is under serious investigation. If you are going to take a stand against drugs then take a stand, don't pick and choose who is a bad guy and who is not.
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Old 01-16-07, 05:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
The irony from the Tour presentation this year was Richard Virenque was standing next to David Millar and Christophe Moreau with Johan Museeuw standing behind them. Now who's more guilty, the convicted or the accused? Basso and Ulrich et al have yet to be proven guilty, yet three of these of the four I've mentioned are convicted drug users and Museeuw is under serious investigation. If you are going to take a stand against drugs then take a stand, don't pick and choose who is a bad guy and who is not.
Good point Rojo!!
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Old 01-16-07, 06:16 PM   #12
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Shoot those accused dopers first, ask questions later!!

At the rate they're going the next Tour winner may be..... EURO!!!!
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Old 01-16-07, 07:56 PM   #13
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they should just ban the whole pro peloton and make it an amateur race. between six year olds. on training wheels.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:11 PM   #14
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they should just ban the whole pro peloton and make it an amateur race. between six year olds. on training wheels.
What do you mean they 'should just ban the whole pro peloton'? If you hadn't noticed they ARE banning the whole pro peloton. The cyclists any of us have ever heard of I mean.

Mission accomplished. The last fan to leave Paris can turn out the friggin lights.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:13 PM   #15
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they should just ban the whole pro peloton and make it an amateur race. between six year olds. on training wheels.
Hey, that could be my shot, can I use CF training wheels?
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Old 01-16-07, 08:14 PM   #16
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So they're going to compare the dna in Ullrich's bag o' blood with the dna in his spit. If the blood's clean, he's back on the bike. Case closed. Unless Jan's attorneys decide not to allow it.

Any bets on what's going to happen in the next few weeks?
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Old 01-16-07, 08:28 PM   #17
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So they're going to compare the dna in Ullrich's bag o' blood with the dna in his spit. If the blood's clean, he's back on the bike. Case closed. Unless Jan's attorneys decide not to allow it.

Any bets on what's going to happen in the next few weeks?
IFFF HE FAILS ZIS TEST HE VILL BE SHOT!

UND ZEN YOU VIL POST ON BIKE VORUMS UND DIZKUSS ITT DU VEENIES!
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Old 01-16-07, 08:50 PM   #18
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Actually, just you. In fact half my family IS European, so I don't think all Europeans are that way. But the French running Le Tour make a compelling case for it. Many here would agree.

>>Yet, the Tour gets more popular every year.<<

Does it REALLY? You can't tell from rider salaries can you? If the Tour de France is such a runaway TV ratings hit, where's the dough? Not in Ivan Basso's bank account. Or ANY of the top pro riders, at least when measured against EVERY other major sport on the planet like soccer, American football, pro basketball, baseball, F1 racing, even friggin NASCAR already.

By the way, if the French don't care about US TV ratings (the largest consumer market on the globe) it
Every post you make calls someone an idiot.

I think Lance Armstrong earned a buck or two at the Tdf.

Not all the world pollutes sport for money. Maybe the TDF should be run on one mile ovals for a month?

The largest consumer market is rapidly shifting to China. I think that your perspective is skewed.

Ever been to Europe?
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Old 01-16-07, 08:54 PM   #19
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So they're going to compare the dna in Ullrich's bag o' blood with the dna in his spit. If the blood's clean, he's back on the bike. Case closed. Unless Jan's attorneys decide not to allow it.

Any bets on what's going to happen in the next few weeks?
They will try everything they can to prevent that test, like Basso will only give DNA if it is not used for ongoing investigations.
It would help if they stopped acting like they've got something to hide.

This sucks, but it has to be done.
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Old 01-16-07, 09:02 PM   #20
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Every post you make calls someone an idiot.

I think Lance Armstrong earned a buck or two at the Tdf.

Not all the world pollutes sport for money. Maybe the TDF should be run on one mile ovals for a month?

The largest consumer market is rapidly shifting to China. I think that your perspective is skewed.

Ever been to Europe?

• Lance earned his money at the Tdf by winning SEVEN of them (not one, not two, SEVEN, just helping you count here) and helped the organizers expand the Tour's audience to places like China and greatly enhanced the Tour's stature and ratings in the USA and globally. THEN these Tour boneheads did everything in their power to smear his reputation on allegation and charges which were utterly unsubstaniated with any real concrete evidence. But all they did was cast aspersions on their own event. That's brilliant. Go figure.

• China will be the largest consumer market in a decade or two. In the meantime it's North America. I know this makes you crazy, but there it is.

• 'Have I been to Europe'? I'll repeat it another time (repetition being the mother of comprehension) but half my family lives there. I've been there about 20 times most recently two weeks in August. When I go I take my bicycle. Naturally.

• 'Not all the world pollutes sport for money'? Well on THIS planet they do. You're on the Planet DocRay which appears to have its own laws of bizarro physics and logic.

• If you're a physician you fit right in. After my five year medical cluster **** I'd say that's PERFECT. Doc.
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Old 01-16-07, 09:05 PM   #21
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It would help if they stopped acting like they've got something to hide.
True but if you were being prosecuted in an atmosphere polluted Dick Pound you might be more reluctant to give up DNA as well. The agenda seems to be that you are guilty now prove your not. In that type of environment who's to say how that DNA would be used? These guys have very few options to protect themselves from wrongful prosecution, I understand their reluctance.
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Old 01-16-07, 09:13 PM   #22
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Lance earned his money at the Tdf by winning SEVEN of them (not one, not two, SEVEN, just helping you count here)
Just to help you count, he signed some major contracts with Nike and others after winning his first. Lance was well on his way to being a multi-millionaire long before he won 7 Tours. His pay packet alone from USPS was worth over a million bucks so please don't make it sound like he was washing dishes on side until number seven rolled around.

Your anlogy that the Tour isn't gaining in popularity because riders haven't received huge sums of money isn't a valid one. First spectators don't pay to watch the event live. The sole income for the Tour organizers comes from advertisement and rights from the towns that have starts and finishes. To use your logic NASCAR is one of the fastest growing entertainment sports in the USA. Yet the highest paid drivers in NASCAR make what mid field drivers make in F1, a form of motorsport that hardly compares to NASCAR's popularity here in the US. Michael Schumacher salary was the highest in sport, 55mil per year, even higher than MJ in his prime.
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Old 01-17-07, 10:51 AM   #23
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>>His pay packet alone from USPS was worth over a million bucks <<

Oh that's impressive. Particularly when the top soccer player on the planet just signed a deal worth a reported $50 million annually, Arod on the Yankees (and a few other top players) make in the vicinity of $20 million + as do top basketball players. Sports is a business and the success/popularity of any pro sport translates directly to player salaries.
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Old 01-17-07, 11:24 AM   #24
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>>His pay packet alone from USPS was worth over a million bucks <<

Oh that's impressive. Particularly when the top soccer player on the planet just signed a deal worth a reported $50 million annually, Arod on the Yankees (and a few other top players) make in the vicinity of $20 million + as do top basketball players. Sports is a business and the success/popularity of any pro sport translates directly to player salaries.
Please read this slowly so you will understand. Soccer/Baseball/Basketball all have a paying audience in the stands. Those people bring in a lot of revenue. Cycling doesn't have a paying audience. If it did the revenue would be massive, T-Mobile is the best funded team on the planet and it's budget is less than what ARod's annual salary is. If the Yankee's annual budget was 15 million do you think they would be giving ARod 25mil? You need to have some perspective on this, which I know may be hard for you, but give it a shot.

Besides my point about LA's salary was to counter the fact that you said it took him 7 Tour wins to make his money. What you said was factually incorrect.
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Old 01-17-07, 02:25 PM   #25
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Please read this slowly so you will understand.
That doesn't help.

The lack of stupid salaries is one reason why I like cycling. The other point is that tours cost a lot more to run than stadium sports.

Again, the DNA testing issue is not WADA, or Pound, everyone assumes now that Pound is the center of everything.
The riders have international laws on privacy and RIPPA rights on their DNA, so any argument that way is just a cheap smokescreen. Violating these laws are already criminal offences, these laws have been in place since the 90s.

I only trust that Eric Zabel had nothing to do with Fuentes or any blood doping, he was the first to offer his DNA. No way Birillo will agree to this.

By this bizarre money = good sport argument, patent would have us believe that the Olympics and College Basketball are not good sports. I'll take March madness over a bunch of whiny, arrogant, overpaid coked-up NBA gamers any day. I'll see a better high-school football game than the typical NFL game.

I don't know where in Europe your family is from, but most of Europe really doesn't care about how the US perceives its sport. Sports like soccer and F1 were thriving in Europe without any US audience.

There is no doubt that money has ruined F1, there are only a handful of real teams.

Besides, cycling in US sports has run its course, in the early 1900s, track racers made more than Babe Ruth, and there were >30 velodromes in New York alone. Somehow, tastes evolved such that watching a bunch of guys standing around, spitting and scratching themselves is more interesting that a Track sprint.
I don't get why track racing is so dead in North America, it's a spectacle, it's exciting and dangerous, it's cheap to televise, and you can charge for admission.
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