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View Poll Results: Optygen--What do you think?

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  • Snake oil. Don't waste your money.

    26 34.21%
  • Meh. Indifferent.

    15 19.74%
  • Maybe helps a little.

    16 21.05%
  • Wow! this is great stuff!

    19 25.00%
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  1. #1
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Optygen: Any opinions?

    So I have no idea why this particular supplement caught my eye--probably more aggressive advertising, but I was wondering if anyone's used Optygen. Seems like there's some OK science to back the stuff up and some favorable reviews out there, but I was curious to hear some other experiences.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  2. #2
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Nutritio...t_122720.shtml

    Wow man, the guys at MTBR usually have at least a few harsh reviews. I suppose the possibility exists that the product is being shilled, but the fact that there are 17 (well...16, one is a double post) positive reviews and no negative ones may make it worth a try at least.

    The supplement facts look good:
    Chromium (as ChelaviteŽ amino acid Chelate) 200mcg 167%
    Cordyceps CS-4 (Cordyceps Sinensis) (mycelia biomass) minimum 7% cordycepic acid 1000mg *
    ATProTM Matrix (Calcium Pyruvate, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Ribose, Adenosine) 800mg *
    Rhodiola Extract (Rhodiola Rosea)(root) minimum 2.5% salidrosidesminimum 3.0% rosavins 300mg *
    Oleosus Serpens

    With the exception of the last ingredient, I think it's worth a shot. But hell, you're the MD, you tell us

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    They certainly have some big claims..

    # Increases Endurance and Performance
    # Reduced Lactic Acid
    # Increases oxygen utilization
    # Increase in VO2 Max
    # Increase in Time to Exhaustion
    # Increase Anaerobic threshold
    # Improved exercise capacity
    # Increase Maximal Oxygen uptake
    # 30% - 50% increase in Oxygen Utilization
    # Increase ratio of ATP by 45% - 55%
    # Enhanced Endurance
    # Increase in ATP production

    Maybe training IS for wussy, R600DuraAce you should get some of this stuff. You might get out of your 3 year Cat 4 rut.

    All snark aside, the stuff might be good, but it's being sold like snake oil.

  4. #4
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    heh, if it actually does all of that, I doubt its legal.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  5. #5
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Ah... well, it looks like if it's going to do all those things it needs to be for longer than 2 weeks... While it's not specifically named, the dosing and ingredients sound like Optygen. And it seems like a pretty well-done study. There are some definite trends there, but the n is way too small to make it statistically significant. My only question is, who are these Cat 3/4 cyclists with peak power outputs of 300W? That seems a bit strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by pubmed.gov
    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Mar;36(3):504-9.Click here to read Links
    Effects of a commercial herbal-based formula on exercise performance in cyclists.

    * Earnest CP,
    * Morss GM,
    * Wyatt F,
    * Jordan AN,
    * Colson S,
    * Church TS,
    * Fitzgerald Y,
    * Autrey L,
    * Jurca R,
    * Lucia A.

    Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, The Cooper Institute Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, Dallas, TX 75230, USA. cearnest@cooperinst.org

    INTRODUCTION/PURPOSE: We examined the effects of a commercially marketed herbal-based formula purported to increase endurance on oxygen consumption (VO2) in 17 competitive category III/IV amateur cyclists [mean (SEM) age: 31.1 (1.8) yr; height: 178.5 (1.8) cm; weight: 77.1 (1.6) kg]. METHODS: Each cyclist participated in two (pre/post) cycling tests progressing 25 W.4 min(-1) starting at 100 W administered in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind fashion. The second trial was performed 14 d after the ingestion of a manufacturer recommended loading phase (4 d x 6 caps.d(-1)) and a maintenance phase (11 d x 3 caps.d(-1)). Three treatment capsules contained 1000 mg of Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4) and 300 mg Rhodiola rosea root extract as the primary ingredients; 800 mg of other ingredients included calcium pyruvate, sodium phosphate, potassium phosphate, ribose, and adenosine and 200 mcg of chromium. RESULTS: Using a 2 x 2 ANOVA, we observed no significant treatment effect for any between or within group variables including peak VO2 [treatment 4.14 (0.2) L.min(-1); placebo 4.10 (0.2) L.min(-1)], time to exhaustion [treatment 38.47 (1.7) min; placebo 36.95 (1.8) min], peak power output (PO) [treatment 300.00 (12.1) W; placebo 290.63 (12.9) W], or peak heart rate. We also observed no differences for any subpeak exercise variable including the PO eliciting 2 mmol.L(-1) blood lactate (BLa) [treatment 201.00 (18.1) W; placebo 167.50 (19.2) W] and 4 mmol.L(-1) BLa [treatment 235.88 (15.8) W; placebo 244.78 (14.9) W], ventilatory threshold, respiratory compensation point, or Vo2 L.min(-1) gross efficiency at each stage. CONCLUSION: A 2-wk ingestion schema of a commercial herbal-based formula is insufficient to elicit positive changes in cycling performance.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  6. #6
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.

  7. #7
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA
    Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
    That, as usual, seems to be the bottom line. Good thing I got my ride in tonight.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  8. #8
    Senior Member The_Convert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA
    Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
    They are called supplements for a reason

  9. #9
    shut up and ride
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    the question is who is getting supplemented? the end user or the shareholder?

  10. #10
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Convert
    They are called supplements for a reason
    I am sure there are plenty of other ways most athletes could greatly improve their lot, before spending big bucks every month on "supplements".

    How many guys/gals actually eat decent. Sleep decent. Train decent. Live decent. Not many, so I say work on those issues and spend the money on some fancy wheels, before trying to manipulate your cells with stuff it probably didn't need.

    Besides, isn't there a bit of a moral dilemma in taking these things. We pounce on pros for always trying to take the easy way out and then raid GNC every week, 'cause we're too lazy to change the list above first.

  11. #11
    Walmart partner spiderbike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    So I have no idea why this particular supplement caught my eye--probably more aggressive advertising, but I was wondering if anyone's used Optygen. Seems like there's some OK science to back the stuff up and some favorable reviews out there, but I was curious to hear some other experiences.

    If you want a edge over your cat 5 racers, just dope


  12. #12
    elitist jerk daytonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA
    Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
    Let's assume Pete has these covered.
    I feel like a soiled kleenex dropped in the gutter in the red-light district of Paris.

  13. #13
    Senior Member spunky's Avatar
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    Here's a site with a bit more info if you're interested.
    http://www.supplementwatch.com/revie...Name=Endurance
    running makes your legs nasty. Cycling makes them look a weird way that i like.

  14. #14
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonian
    Let's assume Pete has these covered.
    Yeah, I had no intent to ditch my training and nutrition over the stuff...

    spunky, thanks for the link. I use some other references for herbals/etc. because some of them can have pretty impressive interactions that become very important when you're operating on them, but I hadn't seen that site.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  15. #15
    Senior Member Bullseye's Avatar
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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15076794

    perhaps you might be less convinced if you checked a scientific study. just guessing!

    -Bullseye

  16. #16
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15076794

    perhaps you might be less convinced if you checked a scientific study. just guessing!

    -Bullseye
    Strangely resembles post #5. But thanks for being patronizing. N=17 with relatively small differences between groups is the sign of a study lacking statistical power--hardly a slam-dunk one way or the other. But I'm sure you already knew that.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  17. #17
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    So I have no idea why this particular supplement caught my eye--probably more aggressive advertising, but I was wondering if anyone's used Optygen. Seems like there's some OK science to back the stuff up and some favorable reviews out there, but I was curious to hear some other experiences.
    wait a minute. something is wrong woth this picture. an MD, who has an IQ that's higher than 99% of the folk here, is asking for our opinion on a supplement?

  18. #18
    DocRay
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

    The supplement facts look good:
    Chromium (as ChelaviteŽ amino acid Chelate) 200mcg 167%
    Cordyceps CS-4 (Cordyceps Sinensis) (mycelia biomass) minimum 7% cordycepic acid 1000mg *
    ATProTM Matrix (Calcium Pyruvate, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Ribose, Adenosine) 800mg *
    Rhodiola Extract (Rhodiola Rosea)(root) minimum 2.5% salidrosidesminimum 3.0% rosavins 300mg *
    Oleosus Serpens
    chromium- not really a deficient element.
    mycelia biomass: dirt bacteria
    ATP promatrix: these components generate ATP in vitro, but will have no effect by ingestion (if this worked, it would be a Nobel prize).
    Rhodiola- little efficacy ever proven
    Olesus serpens is literally snake oil.

    Like that paper concludes, 100% bs, like most supplement mixes.

  19. #19
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
    heh, if it actually does all of that, I doubt its legal.
    I know several guys who race at a level where they are tested, they use it, they say it works, and they have all passed every test.

    I have used it and it helps me.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  20. #20
    Used to be a climber.. GuitarWizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior

    I have used it and it helps me.
    In what ways?
    1999 Trek 2500 - hit by a car on it in May, 2011 and currently bikeless

  21. #21
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA
    Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
    Have you told Johan Museeuw this? He could have avoided all that trouble.

    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  22. #22
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    I know several guys who race at a level where they are tested, they use it, they say it works, and they have all passed every test.

    I have used it and it helps me.
    That's cool then. I tend to work under the assumption that supplements that actually work are usually illegal. If you say it works and is legal, I might just give it a try.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  23. #23
    TX Ciclista CarlJStoneham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderbike
    If you want a edge over your cat 5 racers, just dope
    I fail to see how this will give you an edge

  24. #24
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
    In what ways?
    Simply, I ride further at a faster speed...if I really want to crank, my HR does not go up as quickly. I notice this more in the morning if I am doing an anerobic trainer workout, or going for a ride. Where my hr has been down due to sleep and I get up, for me the warm up, getting my HR up and getting things opened up for a ride is easier if I use this stuff.

    Could all be in my head and I have not measured it specifically, but I do note that I don't get to lactate HR as quickly. I can work harder on my trainer, too.

    Your mileage may vary.

    I know a couple of guys who I sometimes ride with that are subject, on their jobs to spot drug testing. They have used this without a problem.

    This is in no way a warranty...I tried it and liked the results. That's about it.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  25. #25
    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    One of the local uber fast guys swears by the stuff. He says the next best stuff is by Hammer.

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