View Poll Results: Optygen--What do you think?
Snake oil. Don't waste your money.
26
33.77%
Meh. Indifferent.
15
19.48%
Maybe helps a little.
17
22.08%
Wow! this is great stuff!
19
24.68%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll
Optygen: Any opinions?
01-26-07, 06:54 PM
#1
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Optygen: Any opinions?
So I have no idea why this particular supplement caught my eye--probably more aggressive advertising, but I was wondering if anyone's used Optygen. Seems like there's some OK science to back the stuff up and some favorable reviews out there, but I was curious to hear some other experiences.
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01-26-07, 07:18 PM
#2
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https://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Nutritio...t_122720.shtml
Wow man, the guys at MTBR usually have at least a few harsh reviews. I suppose the possibility exists that the product is being shilled, but the fact that there are 17 (well...16, one is a double post) positive reviews and no negative ones may make it worth a try at least.
The supplement facts look good:
Chromium (as ChelaviteŽ amino acid Chelate) 200mcg 167%
Cordyceps CS-4 (Cordyceps Sinensis) (mycelia biomass) minimum 7% cordycepic acid 1000mg *
ATProTM Matrix (Calcium Pyruvate, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Ribose, Adenosine) 800mg *
Rhodiola Extract (Rhodiola Rosea)(root) minimum 2.5% salidrosidesminimum 3.0% rosavins 300mg *
Oleosus Serpens
With the exception of the last ingredient, I think it's worth a shot. But hell, you're the MD, you tell us
Wow man, the guys at MTBR usually have at least a few harsh reviews. I suppose the possibility exists that the product is being shilled, but the fact that there are 17 (well...16, one is a double post) positive reviews and no negative ones may make it worth a try at least.
The supplement facts look good:
Chromium (as ChelaviteŽ amino acid Chelate) 200mcg 167%
Cordyceps CS-4 (Cordyceps Sinensis) (mycelia biomass) minimum 7% cordycepic acid 1000mg *
ATProTM Matrix (Calcium Pyruvate, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Ribose, Adenosine) 800mg *
Rhodiola Extract (Rhodiola Rosea)(root) minimum 2.5% salidrosidesminimum 3.0% rosavins 300mg *
Oleosus Serpens
With the exception of the last ingredient, I think it's worth a shot. But hell, you're the MD, you tell us
01-26-07, 07:26 PM
#3
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They certainly have some big claims..
# Increases Endurance and Performance
# Reduced Lactic Acid
# Increases oxygen utilization
# Increase in VO2 Max
# Increase in Time to Exhaustion
# Increase Anaerobic threshold
# Improved exercise capacity
# Increase Maximal Oxygen uptake
# 30% - 50% increase in Oxygen Utilization
# Increase ratio of ATP by 45% - 55%
# Enhanced Endurance
# Increase in ATP production
Maybe training IS for wussy, R600DuraAce you should get some of this stuff. You might get out of your 3 year Cat 4 rut.
All snark aside, the stuff might be good, but it's being sold like snake oil.
# Increases Endurance and Performance
# Reduced Lactic Acid
# Increases oxygen utilization
# Increase in VO2 Max
# Increase in Time to Exhaustion
# Increase Anaerobic threshold
# Improved exercise capacity
# Increase Maximal Oxygen uptake
# 30% - 50% increase in Oxygen Utilization
# Increase ratio of ATP by 45% - 55%
# Enhanced Endurance
# Increase in ATP production
Maybe training IS for wussy, R600DuraAce you should get some of this stuff. You might get out of your 3 year Cat 4 rut.
All snark aside, the stuff might be good, but it's being sold like snake oil.
01-26-07, 07:35 PM
#5
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Ah... well, it looks like if it's going to do all those things it needs to be for longer than 2 weeks... While it's not specifically named, the dosing and ingredients sound like Optygen. And it seems like a pretty well-done study. There are some definite trends there, but the n is way too small to make it statistically significant. My only question is, who are these Cat 3/4 cyclists with peak power outputs of 300W? That seems a bit strange.
Originally Posted by pubmed.gov
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Mar;36(3):504-9.Click here to read Links
Effects of a commercial herbal-based formula on exercise performance in cyclists.
* Earnest CP,
* Morss GM,
* Wyatt F,
* Jordan AN,
* Colson S,
* Church TS,
* Fitzgerald Y,
* Autrey L,
* Jurca R,
* Lucia A.
Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, The Cooper Institute Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, Dallas, TX 75230, USA. cearnest@cooperinst.org
INTRODUCTION/PURPOSE: We examined the effects of a commercially marketed herbal-based formula purported to increase endurance on oxygen consumption (VO2) in 17 competitive category III/IV amateur cyclists [mean (SEM) age: 31.1 (1.8) yr; height: 178.5 (1.8) cm; weight: 77.1 (1.6) kg]. METHODS: Each cyclist participated in two (pre/post) cycling tests progressing 25 W.4 min(-1) starting at 100 W administered in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind fashion. The second trial was performed 14 d after the ingestion of a manufacturer recommended loading phase (4 d x 6 caps.d(-1)) and a maintenance phase (11 d x 3 caps.d(-1)). Three treatment capsules contained 1000 mg of Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4) and 300 mg Rhodiola rosea root extract as the primary ingredients; 800 mg of other ingredients included calcium pyruvate, sodium phosphate, potassium phosphate, ribose, and adenosine and 200 mcg of chromium. RESULTS: Using a 2 x 2 ANOVA, we observed no significant treatment effect for any between or within group variables including peak VO2 [treatment 4.14 (0.2) L.min(-1); placebo 4.10 (0.2) L.min(-1)], time to exhaustion [treatment 38.47 (1.7) min; placebo 36.95 (1.8) min], peak power output (PO) [treatment 300.00 (12.1) W; placebo 290.63 (12.9) W], or peak heart rate. We also observed no differences for any subpeak exercise variable including the PO eliciting 2 mmol.L(-1) blood lactate (BLa) [treatment 201.00 (18.1) W; placebo 167.50 (19.2) W] and 4 mmol.L(-1) BLa [treatment 235.88 (15.8) W; placebo 244.78 (14.9) W], ventilatory threshold, respiratory compensation point, or Vo2 L.min(-1) gross efficiency at each stage. CONCLUSION: A 2-wk ingestion schema of a commercial herbal-based formula is insufficient to elicit positive changes in cycling performance.
Effects of a commercial herbal-based formula on exercise performance in cyclists.
* Earnest CP,
* Morss GM,
* Wyatt F,
* Jordan AN,
* Colson S,
* Church TS,
* Fitzgerald Y,
* Autrey L,
* Jurca R,
* Lucia A.
Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, The Cooper Institute Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, Dallas, TX 75230, USA. cearnest@cooperinst.org
INTRODUCTION/PURPOSE: We examined the effects of a commercially marketed herbal-based formula purported to increase endurance on oxygen consumption (VO2) in 17 competitive category III/IV amateur cyclists [mean (SEM) age: 31.1 (1.8) yr; height: 178.5 (1.8) cm; weight: 77.1 (1.6) kg]. METHODS: Each cyclist participated in two (pre/post) cycling tests progressing 25 W.4 min(-1) starting at 100 W administered in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind fashion. The second trial was performed 14 d after the ingestion of a manufacturer recommended loading phase (4 d x 6 caps.d(-1)) and a maintenance phase (11 d x 3 caps.d(-1)). Three treatment capsules contained 1000 mg of Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4) and 300 mg Rhodiola rosea root extract as the primary ingredients; 800 mg of other ingredients included calcium pyruvate, sodium phosphate, potassium phosphate, ribose, and adenosine and 200 mcg of chromium. RESULTS: Using a 2 x 2 ANOVA, we observed no significant treatment effect for any between or within group variables including peak VO2 [treatment 4.14 (0.2) L.min(-1); placebo 4.10 (0.2) L.min(-1)], time to exhaustion [treatment 38.47 (1.7) min; placebo 36.95 (1.8) min], peak power output (PO) [treatment 300.00 (12.1) W; placebo 290.63 (12.9) W], or peak heart rate. We also observed no differences for any subpeak exercise variable including the PO eliciting 2 mmol.L(-1) blood lactate (BLa) [treatment 201.00 (18.1) W; placebo 167.50 (19.2) W] and 4 mmol.L(-1) BLa [treatment 235.88 (15.8) W; placebo 244.78 (14.9) W], ventilatory threshold, respiratory compensation point, or Vo2 L.min(-1) gross efficiency at each stage. CONCLUSION: A 2-wk ingestion schema of a commercial herbal-based formula is insufficient to elicit positive changes in cycling performance.
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01-26-07, 07:45 PM
#6
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Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
01-26-07, 07:50 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by YMCA
Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
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01-26-07, 11:35 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by YMCA
Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
01-26-07, 11:42 PM
#9
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the question is who is getting supplemented? the end user or the shareholder?
01-27-07, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by The_Convert
They are called supplements for a reason
How many guys/gals actually eat decent. Sleep decent. Train decent. Live decent. Not many, so I say work on those issues and spend the money on some fancy wheels, before trying to manipulate your cells with stuff it probably didn't need.
Besides, isn't there a bit of a moral dilemma in taking these things. We pounce on pros for always trying to take the easy way out and then raid GNC every week, 'cause we're too lazy to change the list above first.
01-27-07, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
So I have no idea why this particular supplement caught my eye--probably more aggressive advertising, but I was wondering if anyone's used Optygen. Seems like there's some OK science to back the stuff up and some favorable reviews out there, but I was curious to hear some other experiences.
If you want a edge over your cat 5 racers, just dope
01-27-07, 11:37 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by YMCA
Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
01-27-07, 12:00 PM
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Here's a site with a bit more info if you're interested.
https://www.supplementwatch.com/revie...Name=Endurance
https://www.supplementwatch.com/revie...Name=Endurance
01-27-07, 05:02 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by daytonian
Let's assume Pete has these covered.
spunky, thanks for the link. I use some other references for herbals/etc. because some of them can have pretty impressive interactions that become very important when you're operating on them, but I hadn't seen that site.
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01-28-07, 01:22 PM
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15076794
perhaps you might be less convinced if you checked a scientific study. just guessing!
-Bullseye
perhaps you might be less convinced if you checked a scientific study. just guessing!
-Bullseye
01-28-07, 01:35 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Bullseye
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15076794
perhaps you might be less convinced if you checked a scientific study. just guessing!
-Bullseye
perhaps you might be less convinced if you checked a scientific study. just guessing!
-Bullseye
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01-28-07, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
So I have no idea why this particular supplement caught my eye--probably more aggressive advertising, but I was wondering if anyone's used Optygen. Seems like there's some OK science to back the stuff up and some favorable reviews out there, but I was curious to hear some other experiences.
01-28-07, 02:01 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
The supplement facts look good:
Chromium (as ChelaviteŽ amino acid Chelate) 200mcg 167%
Cordyceps CS-4 (Cordyceps Sinensis) (mycelia biomass) minimum 7% cordycepic acid 1000mg *
ATProTM Matrix (Calcium Pyruvate, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Ribose, Adenosine) 800mg *
Rhodiola Extract (Rhodiola Rosea)(root) minimum 2.5% salidrosidesminimum 3.0% rosavins 300mg *
Oleosus Serpens
mycelia biomass: dirt bacteria
ATP promatrix: these components generate ATP in vitro, but will have no effect by ingestion (if this worked, it would be a Nobel prize).
Rhodiola- little efficacy ever proven
Olesus serpens is literally snake oil.
Like that paper concludes, 100% bs, like most supplement mixes.
01-30-07, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
heh, if it actually does all of that, I doubt its legal.
I have used it and it helps me.
01-30-07, 01:33 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
I have used it and it helps me.
01-30-07, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by YMCA
Shortcuts can be avoided by eating healthier, sleeping more and training proper.
01-30-07, 01:40 PM
#22
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I know several guys who race at a level where they are tested, they use it, they say it works, and they have all passed every test.
I have used it and it helps me.
I have used it and it helps me.
01-30-07, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by spiderbike
If you want a edge over your cat 5 racers, just dope
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01-30-07, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
In what ways?
Could all be in my head and I have not measured it specifically, but I do note that I don't get to lactate HR as quickly. I can work harder on my trainer, too.
Your mileage may vary.
I know a couple of guys who I sometimes ride with that are subject, on their jobs to spot drug testing. They have used this without a problem.
This is in no way a warranty...I tried it and liked the results. That's about it.
01-30-07, 01:42 PM
#25
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One of the local uber fast guys swears by the stuff. He says the next best stuff is by Hammer.