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Old 01-27-07, 08:35 PM   #1
curiouskid55
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Crane Creek Aros 58's

Have a chance at pro price set of Crane Creek Aros 58's tubular. Cant seem to get any straight answers. Word is they are the same rim as the Zipp 404. If this is true wont I need carbon specific brake pads? will they work on my aluminum rims? Or do I have to change brake pads every time I change wheels? Are they tubular or open tubular? Do you have to glue them? Isnt that a big pain in the ass if you use them for trining rides and you get a flat? Might be worth they pain in the ass factor to get a $1500 wheelset for $750. I would use them in some training rides in most crit races and in on my TT bike in TT stages and races. I have an old Shimano I use on my stationary trainer.Would use my Mavic for most training rides and my Cane Creek Volos for mountains. Switching wheels is no problem but is it a pain to change brake pads all the time for different rims?
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Old 01-27-07, 09:26 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiouskid55
Have a chance at pro price set of Crane Creek Aros 58's tubular. Cant seem to get any straight answers. Word is they are the same rim as the Zipp 404. If this is true wont I need carbon specific brake pads? will they work on my aluminum rims? Or do I have to change brake pads every time I change wheels? Are they tubular or open tubular? Do you have to glue them? Isnt that a big pain in the ass if you use them for trining rides and you get a flat? Might be worth they pain in the ass factor to get a $1500 wheelset for $750. I would use them in some training rides in most crit races and in on my TT bike in TT stages and races. I have an old Shimano I use on my stationary trainer.Would use my Mavic for most training rides and my Cane Creek Volos for mountains. Switching wheels is no problem but is it a pain to change brake pads all the time for different rims?

They are the same rim as the older non-dimpled 404s, and the current Ritchey WCS Carbons. Yes, you should change your pads when you switch from aluminum to carbon rims. Yes, of course you have to glue them, as they are TUBULAR. Why you would be using them for a training ride is beyond me, but yes, this has the potential to be a pain in the ass. Carry Vittoria PitStop and you should be alright, though. I would use them in the mountains, in crits, in RRs, in TTs over your other wheels as they are both signifcantly lighter and more aero.

What is an open tubular rim...? Clincher, tubular, and tubeless are the only three I'm aware of.
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Old 01-27-07, 09:31 PM   #3
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Most of the TT geeks (and by that I mean those who study rolling resistance, CdA, positional tweaks, watts saved by aero helmets, etc) seem to strongly prefer clinchers. Professional road racers obviously prefer tubulars. I think the tubulars win for superior handling and less weight, clinchers have less rolling resistance.

--Steve
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Old 01-27-07, 09:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent
They are the same rim as the older non-dimpled 404s, and the current Ritchey WCS Carbons. Yes, you should change your pads when you switch from aluminum to carbon rims. Yes, of course you have to glue them, as they are TUBULAR. Why you would be using them for a training ride is beyond me, but yes, this has the potential to be a pain in the ass. Carry Vittoria PitStop and you should be alright, though. I would use them in the mountains, in crits, in RRs, in TTs over your other wheels as they are both signifcantly lighter and more aero.

What is an open tubular rim...? Clincher, tubular, and tubeless are the only three I'm aware of.
the only thing I could add to this is don't bother gluing. Use Tufo Extreme gluing tape and you will be much happier.
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Old 01-28-07, 01:06 AM   #5
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You can run the same brake pads, the carbon rims will just eat them in a hurry and depending on what you're using you might see diminished braking. The Kool Stop black/salmon seem to work really well, and I've heard good things about Swiss Stop.

Not a bad idea to clean them between wheel swaps and make sure they don't have any imbedded junk in them.
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Old 01-28-07, 01:32 AM   #6
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I have carbon tubulars for racing and aluminum clinchers for training.

No reason to ever train on the carbon wheels.
Since changing tires is a hassle, I only use them for racing so a good set of tires can last a whole season.

I change the brake pads whenever I change wheels because the embedded aluminum particles in the rubber pads will damage carbon rims. I used to think it was a hassle, but it only takes about 1 minute.
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Old 01-28-07, 09:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbo
Most of the TT geeks (and by that I mean those who study rolling resistance, CdA, positional tweaks, watts saved by aero helmets, etc) seem to strongly prefer clinchers. Professional road racers obviously prefer tubulars. I think the tubulars win for superior handling and less weight, clinchers have less rolling resistance.

--Steve
From what I've heard, the performance and handling differences between modern clinchers and tubulars are virtually indistinguishable. The real difference lies in the weight factor. Clincher rims will always weigh substantially more than tubular rims.

Bob
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Old 01-28-07, 10:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
Use Tufo Extreme gluing tape and you will be much happier.
Do you use the tape on non TUFO tubulars. Heard somewher its not reccomended but I'm wodering whether that's just marketing?

As to changing pads. I talked to a Zipp rep this week. He said you can use their pads back and forth.They'll wear faster than conventional pads on the AL, but won't damage the CF. However, as Pizza Man alluded to, I'd always heard you should chage because of the shard issue.
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Old 01-28-07, 12:08 PM   #9
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Using the Extreme Tape will also cause a bit higher RR.
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Old 01-28-07, 03:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cslone
Using the Extreme Tape will also cause a bit higher RR.
I know nothing about the physics of an increased RR with the tape. How does that work?

As for the tape, I use Continental tires and have never had a problem...come to think of it, I have never owned a tufo tire. Just the tape and the flat sealant.
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Old 01-30-07, 12:58 PM   #11
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open tubulars are a tubular cinfiguration that does not require gluing that i have only read about so far.
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Old 01-30-07, 01:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiouskid55
open tubulars are a tubular cinfiguration that does not require gluing that i have only read about so far.
Never heard of a wheel called an open tubular. Vittoria calls some of their tires open tubulars...they call the clincher version of the Corsa EVO an open tubular.

Merlin - Vittoria is also making a gluing tape now...my take on the Tufo comments is that Tufo doesn't want to say it is ok to use their tape on others tires due to liability. The Tufo tape works great but can be a bit of a pain to clean off when you remove...but I suppose this is the case with any high strength adhesive.

Vittoria Tubular (Corsa CX):


Vittoria Open Tubular (Open Corsa CX):
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Old 01-30-07, 01:53 PM   #13
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What Vittoria calls an open tubular is a clincher tire.

There is no such thing as an open tubular rim. There are tubular clincher TIRES, Tufo has one, for example, that are basically tubulars with a clincher bead on them, that are used on clincher rims. So, you get the ride, pressure, and lack of pinch flats associated with tubulars, without the hassle of gluing on a regular tubular tire.
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Old 01-30-07, 04:56 PM   #14
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i thought a few manufacturers were coming out with a glueless tubular system but maybe it was a tubular with a clincher bead on it. i dont know its getting more confusing the more information i get. regardlees the rims originally discussed are tubulars that need to be glued or tapped.
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Old 01-30-07, 05:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiouskid55
i thought a few manufacturers were coming out with a glueless tubular system but maybe it was a tubular with a clincher bead on it. i dont know its getting more confusing the more information i get. regardlees the rims originally discussed are tubulars that need to be glued or tapped.
no the system that is about to come out is the same as the mountain bike system and similar to automotive setups, i.e. tubeless. it's a clincher but there are having difficulty with the smaller size and higher pressures of road tires compared to mountain tires.
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Old 01-30-07, 07:26 PM   #16
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As Duke mentioned, Vittoria (and now us, since they make our new tire) refer to clincher as open tubulars. I believe one other company (perhaps Veloflex, but don't hold me to it) uses this nomenclature as well.
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Old 01-30-07, 09:20 PM   #17
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Tufo tape provides less rolling resistance than 2 layers of glue on the tire and rim. You can use it on any tubular provided you have exposed the cotton base tape.
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Old 01-30-07, 09:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiouskid55
i thought a few manufacturers were coming out with a glueless tubular system but maybe it was a tubular with a clincher bead on it. i dont know its getting more confusing the more information i get. regardlees the rims originally discussed are tubulars that need to be glued or tapped.
There's only one wheel (dura-ace) and 1 manufacturer (hutch) that makes tubeless road components.
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