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Old 02-01-07, 01:52 PM   #1
San Rensho 
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Calling "inside"?!

I've read several posts where people say that its an error not to call "inside" during a race. In my book, calling inside means "get out of my way so I can pass you on the inside of a corner." It does not exist as far as I'm concerned.

Rule no. 1 of bike racing is that they cyclist in front has the right of way, period. The cyclist in front has the right of way not because its moral, or agreed to after long deliberations in the world court of cycling, but because if two cyclists cross wheels, the cyclist in back always loses. If someone wants the inside, then they have to take it by at least getting right next to me. At that point, no one has the right of way because wheels aren't crossed.

When I hear inside called in a group ride, I chuckle to myself. I give then room if I can, but out of courtesy, not because they are entitled to it.

If someone tried calling "inside" during the last corner before the final sprint of a race, I would close the door on them and pin them to the curb.

Now, if you are off the pace and a faster rider or group wants to pass you on the inside, thats another story. If you are off the pace you should go around a corner leaving room both on the inside and the outside and letting faster riders by. But if you are keeping up in the pack, "inside" does not exist.

Flame away.
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Old 02-01-07, 01:56 PM   #2
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You tell em San Rensho! You won't get any flames from me.
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Old 02-01-07, 01:57 PM   #3
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Yup...
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Old 02-01-07, 02:00 PM   #4
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I'd essentially agree. However, if someone is diving into the corner from an outside line, oblivious to your presence and is about to cut you off, I can see some merit in letting them know you're there. Of course a strategically flexed elbow may be as, or more effective.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:05 PM   #5
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I've yelled "inside" when someone is right next to me and is about to crash me by coming in on me. However, I'm now much more comfortable just using my shoulder than I was last year. Yelling, "watch it dumbass!" seems to work ok sometimes.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:06 PM   #6
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>>Rule no. 1 of bike racing is that they cyclist in front has the right of way, period<<

Rule no. 2 is that if one guy goes down, a whole bunch of guys go down. When I'm in a crit, I've had idiots dive to the curb - cutting me off - when they had a perfectly good gentle arc through the turn available to them. I'll yell 'inside' so they don't take me out. I'm fully prepared to stop and avoid them. Not my problem - the guy who touches the wheel in front of him crashes, and that would NOT be me. But it might be the guy behind me if some lunkhead cuts me off. When I'm doing this, I'm not trying to gain any advantage in the pack - I'm often boxed into my position in a pack of 60-100 riders. I'm trying to get through the corner in one piece. That's easier if everyone HOLDS THEIR LINE. I don't cut the apex off of a turn in tight packs of 50 riders, and nobody else should either. Generally the common sense displayed in this area is commendable. But every now and then you yell 'inside!' or get choked off.

Yelling 'inside' is simply letting the guy know you're there. I've never had a problem with that conduct in a pack. But then YOU weren't in the peloton. I'm sure you would have burst an aorta. Maybe 'watch it dumabss!' IS the appropriate thing to holler in that case.

It's not a pissing contest. It's about negotiating tight courses with 50+ other riders @ 25+ mph. They call that 'compromise'. That's a novel concept to the current Presidential Administration, but everyone else seems to be familar with it.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:24 PM   #7
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I would agree except for there's always some bonehead on the outside who would try to cut the corner in a double paceline on a turn.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho
I've read several posts where people say that its an error not to call "inside" during a race. In my book, calling inside means "get out of my way so I can pass you on the inside of a corner." It does not exist as far as I'm concerned.
Amen - dont yell "inside". Only heard at the Cat 5/new Cat 4 level. Watch a lower cat or pro race on any corner, and you'll rarely to never hear anyone yelling inside. In a M30+ crit last year, there was this dufus yelling inside, outside, wherever he was in what seemed like every turn. I heard someone give him a "STFU". Still makes me chuckle.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:38 PM   #9
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fair enough, but in the lower cats, there are guys that don't realize that they have to take the outside lane in a corner. Should I not announce myself so that I don't get plowed into the curb?
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Old 02-01-07, 02:40 PM   #10
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i think most yelling is unnecessary. unless it's to avoid a crash.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho
I've read several posts where people say that its an error not to call "inside" during a race. In my book, calling inside means "get out of my way so I can pass you on the inside of a corner." It does not exist as far as I'm concerned.
agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho
If someone tried calling "inside" during the last corner before the final sprint of a race, I would close the door on them and pin them to the curb.
unnecessarily aggressive.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MDcatV
I heard someone give him a "STFU". Still makes me chuckle.
I would laugh my ass off the bike if I ever hear that!
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Old 02-01-07, 03:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho
If someone tried calling "inside" during the last corner before the final sprint of a race, I would close the door on them and pin them to the curb.
+1

I've done it before, and I'll do it again. You're not getting my line bastage
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Old 02-01-07, 03:34 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
+1

I've done it before, and I'll do it again. You're not getting my line bastage
what cat are you again?
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Old 02-01-07, 03:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmhaan
i think most yelling is unnecessary. unless it's to avoid a crash.
The only time I'll yell on a bike ride/race IS to avoid a crash. That happened once in 2006. But I wasn't racing. Check with me later this year.

Usually it's pretty cool.

I think we may all be in agreement:

• yelling 'inside' is fine if you're trying to avoid a pile-up

• but it's a real ******bag move if you're trying to sneak through some perceived sneaky 'daylight' in a race pack @ 30mph
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Old 02-01-07, 03:52 PM   #16
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i generally agree with the OP. i race in the lower, bottom-dwelling cats, and while i think it's kind of a useless call, i hear it from time to time. i just assume the talker is trying to tell everyone he is there, not trying to tell me i have to get out of his way. i always make sure i leave room on the inside of a turn, unless i'm the guy on the far inside

"If someone tried calling "inside" during the last corner before the final sprint of a race, I would close the door on them and pin them to the curb."

i don't have a problem with this, either. are you there to try and win or not? if i'm middle of the pack, no, i wouldn't do this; but if i'm up front? well, don't ask for mercy; i'm fresh out. you should expect i'm gonna dive into the turn. that's the nature of a competitive sport. a writer once asked durocher what he would do if he was coaching third and his mom was rounding third with the winning run in the bottom of the ninth. he said "god help me, i'd trip her. sorry, mom"

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Old 02-01-07, 03:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmhaan
i think most yelling is unnecessary. unless it's to avoid a crash.
i yell at people all of the time during a race, but i suppose that's not really a surprise.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botto
what cat are you again?
4.

And you're telling me that if someone is on your right/left on the last corner before a sprint, and instead of hitting the brakes yells inside to keep their position you're going to move over?
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Old 02-01-07, 04:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke
"If someone tried calling "inside" during the last corner before the final sprint of a race, I would close the door on them and pin them to the curb."

i don't have a problem with this, either. are you there to try and win or not? if i'm middle of the pack, no, i wouldn't do this; but if i'm up front? well, don't ask for mercy; i'm fresh out. you should expect i'm gonna dive into the turn. that's the nature of a competitive sport. a writer once asked durocher what he would do if he was coaching third and his mom was rounding third with the winning run in the bottom of the ninth. he said "god help me, i'd trip her. sorry, mom"

-smoke
Rule 3B10. "A rider near the edge of the road that leaves a gap sufficient for an opponet to pass may not suddenly close the gap upon being overtaken. [Relegation or disqualification].

Purposefully moving sharply to the inside to cut off someone who's passing you on the inside violates that rule.

Of course there is never going to be an official to see it, but it doesn't make it right.

Getting back to the OP's point if you're coming up the inside, you don't want to annouce to folks that its time to slam the door on you.
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Old 02-01-07, 04:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Rule 3B10. "A rider near the edge of the road that leaves a gap sufficient for an opponet to pass may not suddenly close the gap upon being overtaken. [Relegation or disqualification].

Purposefully moving sharply to the inside to cut off someone who's passing you on the inside violates that rule.

Of course there is never going to be an official to see it, but it doesn't make it right.

Getting back to the OP's point if you're coming up the inside, you don't want to annouce to folks that its time to slam the door on you.
The phrase "sufficient gap" is whats at issue I think.

IIRC USCF sent out a notice last year telling riders to stop calling "inside" on corners, and diving for a line they don't have room for. Thats what I have a problem with, and I'm not going to adjust my line to let another rider try a bonehead move that USCF specifically prohibits.

At the same time - purposely shoving someone off the road isn't cool either...
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Old 02-01-07, 04:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
4.

And you're telling me that if someone is on your right/left on the last corner before a sprint, and instead of hitting the brakes yells inside to keep their position you're going to move over?
nope, that's not what i'm telling you.

what i'm trying to make clear is that, considering the limited bike handling skills of a cat 4 field, closing the door on someone in a corner is an idiotic, and dangerous move.

last i checked, none of us amateurs get paid to race, so why should we go out of our way to put someone in harm's way?
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Old 02-01-07, 04:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
The phrase "sufficient gap" is whats at issue I think.

IIRC USCF sent out a notice last year telling riders to stop calling "inside" on corners, and diving for a line they don't have room for. Thats what I have a problem with, and I'm not going to adjust my line to let another rider try a bonehead move that USCF specifically prohibits.

At the same time - purposely shoving someone off the road isn't cool either...
I should clarify, I wouldn't get right against the curb so the guy hit the curb and fell, but if he overlapped my wheel, I would go all the way to the inside so he had to brake to get around me on the outside, I would block his inside line because at the apex of a corner, the correct line is all the way to the inside..
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Old 02-01-07, 04:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botto
last i checked, none of us amateurs get paid to race, so why should we go out of our way to put someone in harm's way?
We shouldn't. That's why yelling inside to take/keep a line you don't have room for is a bad idea IMO.

There is a difference in moving over to shove someone off the road and holding a line through a turn and not letting some dufus behind you take your line.
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Old 02-01-07, 04:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
We shouldn't. That's why yelling inside to take/keep a line you don't have room for is a bad idea IMO.

There is a difference in moving over to shove someone off the road and holding a line through a turn and not letting some dufus behind you take your line.
agreed.
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Old 02-01-07, 04:27 PM   #25
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Don't make me yell "Go home!" at you.
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