Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    NorCal Climbing Freak
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    872
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Fluid 2 Trainer - Power Numbers

    Hey,

    I'm wondering what I should make of this. I've been riding with my new Ergomo for a little now. The numbers seem accurate to me. Yet, when compared against published power numbers for the Cycleops Fluid2, there is a discrepancy.

    According to the chart here, http://curveship.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/aah/trainerpower.pl , at 17 mph I should be putting out 242. I was spinning at about 17.5 - 18 mph at my endurance heart rate. And that was, according to my Ergomo, about 190-200 watts. That number seems about right, considering my outdoor endurance pace and other online calculators. I was also able to spin at my heart rate LT, at about 20mph. That would be 388 watts...so something is wrong. I'm not that strong.

    So there are two possibilities as I see it. The first, is that my endurance wattage is around 260-270, and my Ergomo is way off. Considering I weigh around 140, that would be phenomenal and thus likely wrong. So, there is option two (more likely I guess), that something is way off with my cycleops fluid 2. It would seem to be putting out a lot less resistance than it should be.

    The ride stats were NP = 196 watts, speed at around 17. I'd be interested in hearing what people think.

    [edit] I should add that I played around with the tightness of the resistance unit against my tire, which was fully inflated, and was unable to replicate the numbers even closely.
    Last edited by grebletie; 02-02-07 at 07:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Killing Rabbits
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,695
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by grebletie

    something is way off with my cycleops fluid 2 [estimations].

    You already know your answer.

  3. #3
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    suffering on the back
    Posts
    3,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As I just finished a trainer ride(fluid2) with my power tap and I must be a monster because I average 21mph for a little over an hour. I am going pro with 460 watt average I think the calculator might be just a little off

  4. #4
    Used to be a climber.. GuitarWizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Providence, RI
    My Bikes
    None at the moment
    Posts
    6,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by grebletie

    [edit] I should add that I played around with the tightness of the resistance unit against my tire, which was fully inflated, and was unable to replicate the numbers even closely.
    Don't overtighten it against the wheel...you don't get anymore "resistance" that way.
    1999 Trek 2500 - hit by a car on it in May, 2011 and currently bikeless

  5. #5
    Used to be a climber.. GuitarWizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Providence, RI
    My Bikes
    None at the moment
    Posts
    6,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    As I just finished a trainer ride(fluid2) with my power tap and I must be a monster because I average 21mph for a little over an hour. I am going pro with 460 watt average I think the calculator might be just a little off
    That's moving right along on a Fluid 2....
    1999 Trek 2500 - hit by a car on it in May, 2011 and currently bikeless

  6. #6
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,416
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
    That's moving right along on a Fluid 2....
    +1. My Fluid2 seems to require more power than a level road at any given speed.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  7. #7
    Used to be a climber.. GuitarWizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Providence, RI
    My Bikes
    None at the moment
    Posts
    6,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yep. After about 5 minutes of 21 mph, my legs start to ask if I'm done yet.

    Although when my first resistance unit started leaking, it got progressively easier

    I'm on my 3rd resistance unit, BTW.
    1999 Trek 2500 - hit by a car on it in May, 2011 and currently bikeless

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have found this to be fairly accurate once the Fluid2 warms up:


  9. #9
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Vagabond
    My Bikes
    Affirmative
    Posts
    9,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ^That chart seems awful optomistic. According to it, I can maintain 750W for 1min, and 400W for over an hour.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  10. #10
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    My Bikes
    2005 Specialized Roubaix Elite, 2005 Specialized FSR XC Comp, 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, Fetish Cycles Road Bike
    Posts
    3,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Good news is if you keep your Ergomo properly calibrated, you don't have to care about speed on the trainer anymore
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  11. #11
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    MABRA
    My Bikes
    2007 CAAD9; 2008 Giant Bowery; 2008 Surly Crosscheck
    Posts
    13,132
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here are some numbers from my PowerTap and Fluid2:

    Speed.................Wattage
    15.5...................94
    16.5...................115
    17.9...................141
    20.4...................253
    21.3...................277
    24.5...................389
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
    ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!

  12. #12
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    suffering on the back
    Posts
    3,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    just checked the PT file:
    avg speed avg cadence avg power
    20.72 102 211

    I think something must be messed up then

  13. #13
    NorCal Climbing Freak
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    872
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm pretty confused now. It seems everyone gets different power numbers from their Fluid 2. For reference, I was spinning in my 53/21 at around 95 rpm, so according to that chart, I'm a beast. At first I was worried about my Ergomo's calibration, but now I'm a bit concerned about my Fluid2.

    What's interesting about the chart that I posted, is that at the low end, like at 13 mph, the numbers are spot on (about 112 watts). It's when my speed is increased, that my power numbers fail to increase as the chart predicts. But at least intuitively, my Ergomo seems more right than the Fluid 2. Well, as long as it isn't leaking fluid, I'll just ignore the speed. But I have a feeling that could be sooner, rather than later.

  14. #14
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
    Posts
    3,962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung
    Here are some numbers from my PowerTap and Fluid2:

    Speed.................Wattage
    15.5...................94
    16.5...................115
    17.9...................141
    20.4...................253
    21.3...................277
    24.5...................389

    I am really close to this with my KK and PT.
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

  15. #15
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Vagabond
    My Bikes
    Affirmative
    Posts
    9,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by grebletie
    I'm pretty confused now. It seems everyone gets different power numbers from their Fluid 2. For reference, I was spinning in my 53/21 at around 95 rpm, so according to that chart, I'm a beast. At first I was worried about my Ergomo's calibration, but now I'm a bit concerned about my Fluid2.

    What's interesting about the chart that I posted, is that at the low end, like at 13 mph, the numbers are spot on (about 112 watts). It's when my speed is increased, that my power numbers fail to increase as the chart predicts. But at least intuitively, my Ergomo seems more right than the Fluid 2. Well, as long as it isn't leaking fluid, I'll just ignore the speed. But I have a feeling that could be sooner, rather than later.
    The different power numbers might be due to variations in how tight people have the wheel up against the drum.

    FWIW, cycleops has the powercurves for their trainers up on their website.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  16. #16
    NorCal Climbing Freak
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    872
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wasn't able to find a powercurve on the Saris website, but I found this one, which is quite different than the others. http://www.1upusa.com/1uptrainerpowercurves.htm .

    I'm just going to stop worrying. Though it would be nice to get my Ergomo independently checked for calibration.

  17. #17
    Sick ... again MacMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,577
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by grebletie
    I wasn't able to find a powercurve on the Saris website, but I found this one, which is quite different than the others. http://www.1upusa.com/1uptrainerpowercurves.htm .

    I'm just going to stop worrying. Though it would be nice to get my Ergomo independently checked for calibration.
    Wow! Thanks for posting that - I never knew that the 1up could be configured like that. The Fluid2 is great but I can never get to do real SEs on it where I need to put out about 400w at 50 rpm. I can never get the resistance that high to get down into those low rpms for that wattage. I might look into the 1up now.

    FWIW, the numbers posted on that site for the Fluid2 pretty much correlate with what I see on my PowerTap when I'm riding.
    Last edited by MacMan; 02-03-07 at 12:13 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
    ^That chart seems awful optomistic. According to it, I can maintain 750W for 1min, and 400W for over an hour.
    I've found that it correlates well in the 200-300W range with my PowerTap once the Fluid2 warms up (I've never checked for higher wattage... why bother when I have a PT?). That's with the recommended 2.5 turns on the tension knob.

  19. #19
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Vagabond
    My Bikes
    Affirmative
    Posts
    9,017
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well then, if I don't go cat1 this year I'm holding you accountable for getting my hopes up
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  20. #20
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,363
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    just checked the PT file:
    avg speed avg cadence avg power
    20.72 102 211

    I think something must be messed up then
    Either the tire is slipping on the drum, or fluid has leaked from the resistence unit. In my experience the average power is about 100 watts low for that speed on a Fluid 2.

    Of course as long as the PT is calibrated, just go off that and forget the speed.

  21. #21
    NorCal Climbing Freak
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    872
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wonder if those black stains on my carpet might be fluid that leaked

    I suppose that explains my problem.

  22. #22
    wavylines
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Bull City
    Posts
    546
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by grebletie
    Heh, since I put that page up, I'll point out my note on the "accuracy" section:

    A note on accuracy: ... If you have a friend with a calibrated powermeter, ask if you can borrow it for an afternoon to determine your specific trainer's power equation.
    Trust your Ergomo WAY over trainer calculations. (But also make sure your Ergomo is working right ... a lot of people have had to fiddle with their K value or redo the installation.) Also, specifically on the Fluid 2, see this post from cyclingforms http://www.cyclingforums.com/attachm...achmentid=7758 showing power drift on the Fluid 2 as it warms up ... though there's a recent thread on the wattage board claiming that the newest units (last year or so) have helped with this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •