Zipp 404's
#1
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Zipp 404's
Anybody have these? Do they feel faster than mortal rims?
Man, they're very expensive. Anybody know current 2007 model MSRP (tubulars)? Best price anywhere?
Man, they're very expensive. Anybody know current 2007 model MSRP (tubulars)? Best price anywhere?
#3
Peloton Shelter Dog
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Originally Posted by zimbo
Why tubulars? According to every tech weenie I know, they are slower than clinchers by a measurable margin.
--Steve
--Steve
#4
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Quick, somebody alert every pro team in the UCI, they're all misguided.
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Originally Posted by zimbo
Why tubulars? According to every tech weenie I know, they are slower than clinchers by a measurable margin.
--Steve
--Steve
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Anybody have these? Do they feel faster than mortal rims?
Man, they're very expensive. Anybody know current 2007 model MSRP (tubulars)? Best price anywhere?
Man, they're very expensive. Anybody know current 2007 model MSRP (tubulars)? Best price anywhere?
#7
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
The bike weenie gauntlet has been thrown down:
somebody PROVE to us clinchers are faster.
And you're digressing. Stick to the topic you hopeless gearheads. It's Monday, I'm cranky, don't make me come over there. My legs are too sore.
somebody PROVE to us clinchers are faster.
And you're digressing. Stick to the topic you hopeless gearheads. It's Monday, I'm cranky, don't make me come over there. My legs are too sore.
#8
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
They are good wheels, you might also consider the Reynolds Status DV's. They beat out the Zipps in a head to head test done by Roadbike Review. I have a set in tubular form and they are just great.
#10
Peloton Shelter Dog
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I will carefully scope these out ED, thanks. Durability? Your experience? How long have you used them? Your weight?
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Originally Posted by zimbo
Why tubulars? According to every tech weenie I know, they are slower than clinchers by a measurable margin.
--Steve
--Steve
#12
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Also: tubulars can be pumped up to higher psi, no? 150lbs +??
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I will carefully scope these out ED, thanks. Durability? Your experience? How long have you used them? Your weight?
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I'm not going to be able to "prove" anything even if I give you the tables from the studies that have been done. I'll simply say that on average, the clincher tires had a lower rolling resistance than the tubulars. Michelin Pro2 Race has measurably less rolling resistance and better puncture resistance than the best tubular tested.
Clinchers = slightly lower rolling resistance
Tubulars = slightly better handling, lighter weight
--Steve
Clinchers = slightly lower rolling resistance
Tubulars = slightly better handling, lighter weight
--Steve
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Also: tubulars can be pumped up to higher psi, no? 150lbs +??
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Originally Posted by zimbo
I'm not going to be able to "prove" anything even if I give you the tables from the studies that have been done. I'll simply say that Michelin Pro2 Race has measurably less rolling resistance and better puncture resistance than the best tubular tested.
Clinchers = slightly lower rolling resistance
Tubulars = slightly better handling, lighter weight
--Steve
Clinchers = slightly lower rolling resistance
Tubulars = slightly better handling, lighter weight
--Steve
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Also: tubulars can be pumped up to higher psi, no? 150lbs +??
--Steve
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while my tubulars claim to be able to take 160PSI (Conti Sprinter Gatorskins), I usually run them at about 120.
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
That is far different than saying that the clincher version of the 404 is faster than the tubular version.
If you want to argue that the reduced weight of the tubular is more of a factor than the reduced rolling resistance of the clincher on the courses you ride then you'd be better off with a lighter non-aero wheel.
--Steve
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Originally Posted by zimbo
Why tubulars? According to every tech weenie I know, they are slower than clinchers by a measurable margin.
--Steve
--Steve
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The differences, when on the road, in rolling resistance between the best clinchers and best tubulars are very, very small. And, given the fact that you don't get pinch flats with tubulars, you might very well end up ahead of the game, as opposed to clinchers.
Tubulars= very small rise in CRR (you can't feel this, and you probably wouldn't see any discernable difference in speed), better cornering due to the shape of the tire, no pinch flats, far fewer blowouts, and you don't roll them nearly as easily.
Clinchers= slightly lower CRR than tubies. Shape of tire makes them less adept at cornering. Vulnerable to pinch flats. Corner on a clincher going flat or flat, and you're f***ed.
Tubulars= very small rise in CRR (you can't feel this, and you probably wouldn't see any discernable difference in speed), better cornering due to the shape of the tire, no pinch flats, far fewer blowouts, and you don't roll them nearly as easily.
Clinchers= slightly lower CRR than tubies. Shape of tire makes them less adept at cornering. Vulnerable to pinch flats. Corner on a clincher going flat or flat, and you're f***ed.
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Originally Posted by zimbo
On real roads, PSI of higher than about 120 actually increases the rolling resistance of tubulars. On a glass-smooth track it's a different story.
--Steve
--Steve
The Stratus wheels are ubber durable and tough from my experience. I started racing them around 170#, dropped a water bottle into the front and finished a 60 mile RR on 14 of 16 spokes without rubbing the brake block.
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Originally Posted by patentcad
The bike weenie gauntlet has been thrown down:
somebody PROVE to us clinchers are faster.
And you're digressing. Stick to the topic you hopeless gearheads. It's Monday, I'm cranky, don't make me come over there. My legs are too sore.
somebody PROVE to us clinchers are faster.
And you're digressing. Stick to the topic you hopeless gearheads. It's Monday, I'm cranky, don't make me come over there. My legs are too sore.
https://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html
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Setting aside the clincher/tubular debate, I train and race on Zipp 404's
In my experience they've been very durable wheels. (did a race sunday with a fairly bumpy cobbled section with them with no problem).
Once they're up to speed, they definitely feel fast. Objectively it might .25 mph or so in the low 20's.
When I first got them, they felt a bit slow accelerating, compared to a lighter set of 303's. However, I pretty much got used to that after a while, and I doubt the actual difference would be measurable.
In my experience they've been very durable wheels. (did a race sunday with a fairly bumpy cobbled section with them with no problem).
Once they're up to speed, they definitely feel fast. Objectively it might .25 mph or so in the low 20's.
When I first got them, they felt a bit slow accelerating, compared to a lighter set of 303's. However, I pretty much got used to that after a while, and I doubt the actual difference would be measurable.
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I race on 404's. They are great wheels, though I have to say that I cracked my original set (when I was at 175lbs) on a nasty pothole. I rebuilt with the pave cross rims (about 100 grams heavier I think) and have rode VERY rough stuff with no problems. If I do Battenkill-Roubaix this year, it will be on my 404's.