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Thread: FTP from NP60

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    FTP from NP60

    There was a short discussion on the Wattage forum about deriving FTP from NP60. What are your thoughts on this? My best 20-min test result was 235watts, 95% of which gives me an FTP of 223.25W. However, on one of my training rides where I was really hammering it, I got a normalized power of 235w for a 1-hour time period, with a VI of 1.09.

    223.25 watts from the 20min test (done indoors on a trainer)
    235w NP for 60 minutes hammering outdoors, VI of 1.09.

    Which is more accurate/reliable?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    Since neither are in the list of 7 deadly sins, I personally wouldn't use either of them.

    Since the average for your 235 NP is only 215ish, I'd devalue its ability to be a reflection of FTP.

    Do you think you can consistently do your 20+ min intervals 10 watts higher?
    Envision, Energize, Enable

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    i can try
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Motivation and psychological factors at each instance of test can have a huge effect on results of those tests. So, the question is, how does one test at the highest motivational level and with as consistent a psychological frame of mind as possible? Psychotropic drugs... no, umm... how about testing is racing and racing is testing.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    It would make some sense that you'd see a higher NP number in a fast group ride or a race.

    You've now got a target to shoot for on your next 20 minute interval. Maybe you can beat the 235...

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    245w for 20 minutes sounds doable. i'm gonna need a fan though.
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    5-10mg/kg of caffeine say you can do it too

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    at 67kg, we're talking about 670mg caffine. isn't that a lot?
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    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    The point of FTP is really only to establish intensity levels to be used in subsequent training, right? Therefore, I would use 225 watts as your FTP because as you start doing 2x20s or 3x20s it will become apparent whether or not you are able to sustain that wattage over multiple intervals.

    I personally have defined FTP as 0.95 of my monthly 20-minute test because I can tell you that doing a fully motivated 1-hour TT every month would be REALLY hard to get up for. Until my USA Cycling license requires me to certify my FTP, it's just for my own training purposes anyway and 20 minutes hurts bad enough as it is.

    --Steve

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    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung
    at 67kg, we're talking about 670mg caffine. isn't that a lot?
    Yes. About 3 No-Doz. Or 4 cups of drip coffee...

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    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung
    There was a short discussion on the Wattage forum about deriving FTP from NP60. What are your thoughts on this? My best 20-min test result was 235watts, 95% of which gives me an FTP of 223.25W. However, on one of my training rides where I was really hammering it, I got a normalized power of 235w for a 1-hour time period, with a VI of 1.09.

    223.25 watts from the 20min test (done indoors on a trainer)
    235w NP for 60 minutes hammering outdoors, VI of 1.09.

    Which is more accurate/reliable?
    I think you're confusing IF (intensity factor) and VI (variability index). If your IF is consistently greater than 1, then your FTP is probably set too low.

    VI refers to the variability in power, where a TT is around 1.0 and a hilly crit is 1.3, etc.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Pete, I know, but I included the VI to illustrate a fairly consistent effort for the hour.

    zimbo: I'm also using my FTP to pace myself for a 30km TT coming up.
    Last edited by bdcheung; 03-06-07 at 07:15 PM.
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    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung
    zimbo: I'm also using my FTP to pace myself for a 30-mile TT coming up.
    30-MILE TT. You said MILE?! That's crazy.

    --Steve

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    sorry, i mean km
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    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    I'd go with the NP60. It's higher, and more likely to represent your race-day effort.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

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    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    I'd go with the NP60. It's higher, and more likely to represent your race-day effort.
    I'd agree. And I'd train based on your outdoor ride numbers rather than indoor trainer numbers, unless you do your training indoors on the trainer. Mine outdoor and indoor numbers are pretty far apart.

    I'm not totally familiar with your PM computer, but I'd be inclined to do the TT on the "average" screen vs. trying to ride just off the immediate wattage readings.
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo
    The point of FTP is really only to establish intensity levels to be used in subsequent training, right?
    Not really. An accurate FTP is also necessary for calculating TSS which leads to accurate CTL, ATL, and TSB, all of which are very helpful in planning training volume and periods of superior performance.

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    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    the cycling peaks guidelines drive me crazy, I dont understand how I can be at the bottom of the scale(should be fetching water for cat5 riders) in 5s and 1m power but low cat2/top of cat3 by the 5m and ftp. All this compounded by the fact that numbers and a scale does good for training but squat in a race.

    Also as others have stated, my indoor numbers are quite a bit lower than outdoor numbers by almost 70w. This could be mostly due to a lack of motivation on the trainer, something about being a hampster dosen't get me spinning. So I would go with your outdoor numbers

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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    the cycling peaks guidelines drive me crazy, I dont understand how I can be at the bottom of the scale(should be fetching water for cat5 riders) in 5s and 1m power but low cat2/top of cat3 by the 5m and ftp.
    1) sounds like you fit more of a TT profile (see the various profiles on the WKO+ pages)

    2) CP data contains Track specialists as well. They are able to put out MUCH more power than the average roadie for short periods of time. Thus, you would likely stack up well with cat 5 track events - not necessarily road events.

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    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
    Thus, you would likely stack up well with cat 5 track events - not necessarily road events.
    Other way around, but yeah.

    --Steve

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    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
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    on-road test is more accurate

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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo
    Other way around, but yeah.

    --Steve
    Sorry. Tired.


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