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Old 03-11-07, 05:25 PM   #1
branman1986
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even MORE TT questions

Well, our main race series in Georgia has adopted the stage race format which means winning the TT is paramount to winning the GC. I just got my bonus check in and I'm looking to buy a dedicated TT bike.

My budget is about $5k including wheelset. I have a few questions though.

-My current FTP is only about 320-330, should I be even worrying about getting the best of the best stuff right now? I haven't really trained the 2x20 stuff, so I'm hoping I can get it into the 400s with LOTS more training. I can put out a lot more power in my normal road setup than when I put clipons on and move the seat up and forward.
-Is there some great frame/bike bargain I'm overlooking? I will need at least a size 60cm, but prefer larger.

I'm currently figuring on getting one of the Cervelos, probably either a P2SL or P2C with Zipp 999's or a P3 and just using my Carbones for now. Also been looking at the Blue T14(if it's big enough), Specialized S-Works Transition, Trek Equinox, Q'Roo & maybe the Giant...It's all a little overwhelming and for $5000, I want to make sure I get the right stuff(seems like I can't go wrong with a P3).

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-11-07, 05:29 PM   #2
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Well, if you're going to dump 5k into your TT bike it seems like you'd want the best.

People seem to agree that the P3 is the best...
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Old 03-11-07, 05:36 PM   #3
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well, if I can get away with spending much less and still get a lot of value, I'd rather spend 2-3 grand. I'm sort of leaning towards the P2SL w/Dura Ace mix aero kit and using my 'bones front/back until I can get a decent disc on ebay or something, then just go Zipp disc in the back, Carbone in the front.

edit: Plus for some reason I love the sound of the front derailleur changing gears on an aluminum TT bike. CLANG!
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Old 03-11-07, 05:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branman1986
well, if I can get away with spending much less and still get a lot of value, I'd rather spend 2-3 grand. I'm sort of leaning towards the P2SL w/Dura Ace mix aero kit and using my 'bones front/back until I can get a decent disc on ebay or something, then just go Zipp disc in the back, Carbone in the front.
I'm not sure what you gain functionally with Dura Ace that you don't get with 105, and if you're better off with a disk over a wheel cover in back with a very good aero wheel up front especially if you use a Power Tap.
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Old 03-11-07, 06:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branman1986
-My current FTP is only about 320-330, should I be even worrying about getting the best of the best stuff right now? I haven't really trained the 2x20 stuff, so I'm hoping I can get it into the 400s with LOTS more training.
First, ONLY 320-330? Secondly, into the 400's is incredible.

As to the question, my P3C has yet to let me down. I would not KNOW what would be "more aero" a P2 with a disk, or a P3 with the carbones, but if I had to guess, a disc will probably save more time in a 40k than will the differences between the P2 and P3.
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Old 03-11-07, 06:24 PM   #6
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I though the shape of the P3 completely eliminates the rear wheel from the wind...so it wouldn't matter what wheel was on the rear. The wind doesn't see it anyway. So I think a disc in rear would offer minute benefits at best.

Yea, P3's are incredible machines.
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Old 03-11-07, 06:30 PM   #7
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I though the shape of the P3 completely eliminates the rear wheel from the wind...so it wouldn't matter what wheel was on the rear.
The P3 seat tube shields the rear wheel, but doesn't elliminate it entirely. As long as the wheel sees the flow, it matters.
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Old 03-11-07, 06:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
First, ONLY 320-330? Secondly, into the 400's is incredible.

As to the question, my P3C has yet to let me down. I would not KNOW what would be "more aero" a P2 with a disk, or a P3 with the carbones, but if I had to guess, a disc will probably save more time in a 40k than will the differences between the P2 and P3.
hmm, I guess I was going by the chart with the different w/kgs...WHOOPS! nvm...let me restate

Okay, I want to get it to 360+ Sorry, somehow I got my calculations screwed up. If I can get it to 369, that's at the top range of Cat 3 for my weight. At 320, I'm in the Cat 4 range.
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Old 03-11-07, 07:37 PM   #9
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If it were me (and I say that because I've followed a similar path as you), I would spend less on the frame and more on the wheelset. In my case, I bought a $1000 Motobecane Nemesis and a used pair of Zipp 404s with a PT.

I don't think frame aerodynamics make very much difference compared to your body and the wheels and I can always upgrade the frameset later and I have a nice set of wheels I can transfer to the new bike if I ever feel the need to spend more on a TT bike. I also don't think you really _need_ anything higher than Ultegra for a TT bike (but I certainly don't hold it against folks who have full carbon, full DA TT bikes--I lust after their bikes but hold no grudge).

--Steve
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Old 03-11-07, 07:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by branman1986
hmm, I guess I was going by the chart with the different w/kgs...WHOOPS! nvm...let me restate

Okay, I want to get it to 360+ Sorry, somehow I got my calculations screwed up. If I can get it to 369, that's at the top range of Cat 3 for my weight. At 320, I'm in the Cat 4 range.
Just curious. Is your weight a lean weight? Because if you could lose some weight, but maintain the same FTP, that would be pretty phenomenal.
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Old 03-11-07, 07:47 PM   #11
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Wow, branman, you are in an enviable position. For that kind of dough you can get a really beautiful bike. I recommend a P3C. No going wrong there. I've yet to find someone who owns one complain about it. I have the P2C and that is also a very fast bike. If I had to do it again, though, I'd get the P3C. If you can't find a decent used one, then just get the frame for now and start building it up slowly. Cobble your parts together from ebay and save some dough, so that you'll have something left over for the wheels.

I'm a bit different in my recommendations than the others in that I would start with a top notch frame and then work toward the wheels slowly.
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Old 03-11-07, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grebletie
Just curious. Is your weight a lean weight? Because if you could lose some weight, but maintain the same FTP, that would be pretty phenomenal.
I'm probably 10-11% bodyfat, so it's pretty lean weight. The lowest I can possibly see myself wanting to go is about 195lbs.

edit: heh, I keep switching from one end of the spectrum to the other(P2SL to P3)...TT equipment is just so frickin sweet, and I'd love to be a TT monster like the good Doc.

Last edited by branman1986; 03-11-07 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 03-11-07, 08:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by branman1986
I'm probably 10-11% bodyfat, so it's pretty lean weight. The lowest I can possibly see myself wanting to go is about 195lbs.

edit: heh, I keep switching from one end of the spectrum to the other(P2SL to P3)...TT equipment is just so frickin sweet, and I'd love to be a TT monster like the good Doc.
In a flat TT your weight is almost no penalty. If you are really capable of holding those numbers, you will be FLYING. Uphill is a different story, but even so, those raw numbers are great.
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Old 03-12-07, 09:24 PM   #14
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Another option is to hunt down a NOS or second hand P3 (non carbon model). Put the rest of the money into wheels, power meter, TT fitting and perhaps even book some time in the Wind tunnel...
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Old 03-12-07, 10:01 PM   #15
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that's an amazing FT branman. although im tending to think that 5k is def not going to get u the best of the best...TT rigs are expensive! 5k will of course go pretty far tho and im curious to see what you're able to put together in the end with that budget. goodluck!
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Old 03-12-07, 10:25 PM   #16
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I'd go P3 or Giant over the P2. I've raced the P2 and am not a huge fan, it's pretty harsh. The Giant frameset, when you factor in the brakes, bars, and cables is actually a pretty nice value, is quite fast, and has excellent ride quality. I'd buy some wheels and see how much you have left over, then make your decision.
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Old 03-12-07, 10:33 PM   #17
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I don't think Giant's come in a large enough size
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Old 03-12-07, 10:41 PM   #18
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I don't think Giant's come in a large enough size
oh the irony
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Old 03-12-07, 10:46 PM   #19
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oh the irony
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Old 03-12-07, 11:26 PM   #20
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DAMN YOU ENABLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously...I hate you people...

I can't believe I'm gonna drop this much dough on a TT bike........................................

oh, frickin' well, only live once

(thanks guys )
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Old 03-13-07, 03:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by branman1986
DAMN YOU ENABLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously...I hate you people...

I can't believe I'm gonna drop this much dough on a TT bike........................................

oh, frickin' well, only live once

(thanks guys )
My reasoning went like this. If I want I an always sell the setup and collect a fair amount of the investment back. So it's not REALLY $5k. More like $5k with a 3.5k return??
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Old 03-13-07, 05:18 AM   #22
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I would still debate the weight. At 10-11%, you're still not too "lean" on the cyclist scale if you'd be aiming for 195. Not sure on the height but it may end up being a debate of keep/lose the upper body muscle mass. I made that sacrifice this year and dropped 15 lbs with a desire to drop another 5 to stay consistently in the 168-170 range ( I can get there pretty much any given week but I tend to hover at 172-173 ). I was able to maintain (and improve) my FTP over the winter with the weight loss and am looking at this season with pretty high hopes.

Either way, I was just reading the other day that the aero disk cover is actually better off than the full disk wheel. Not sure if that's the truth or not, but it was over on slowtwitch and they usually keep their aero info pretty accurate.

VW
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Old 03-13-07, 07:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by NomadVW
Either way, I was just reading the other day that the aero disk cover is actually better off than the full disk wheel. Not sure if that's the truth or not, but it was over on slowtwitch and they usually keep their aero info pretty accurate.

VW
I'm wondering if they were comparing the disc cover to a non lenticular disc? There is supposedly an advantage to a lenticular disc (HED and Zipp) over non lenticular discs. A disc cover formed over spokes would tend to mimic a lenticular disc.

Branman,
I would second putting money in wheels. The aero position of the rider, then the aerodynamics of the wheels, will make more difference than the aerodynamics of the frame itself.

Thus I'd get a Zipp disc, and an 808 front ( or a Trispoke), then find a frame that fits you well within the remainder of the budget ( leaving enough for a TT helmet, skinsuit, and booties).
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Old 03-13-07, 08:55 AM   #24
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CLANG!
THWACK! is also very nice. (P3 carbon)
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Old 03-13-07, 09:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by NomadVW
Either way, I was just reading the other day that the aero disk cover is actually better off than the full disk wheel.
I've also heard very positive comparisons of the disk cover to disc wheels by folks in the know -- more aerodynamic than many. Lighter usually as well. Better maintenance (once a disk is out of true, it's toast.) Not to mention price. Unless you're given disk wheels free of charge or get huge price breaks, I'd go with the wheel cover.

And save some for the aero bottle and cage and a Bell Meteor.
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