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Old 03-12-07, 06:21 AM   #1
merlinextraligh
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Random Cat 5 observations

I'll start with the preface that everybody has to learn for themselves, and Cat 5 races are for learning, but some things crack me up:

1)there's hardly a single corner in a crit that someone doesn't yell inside (see earlier thread.)

2) Why would anyone sit in on a hill, while the pack climbs it at a moderate pace, only to attack into a headwind on the flat just after the climb. Yesterdays race it was the same pattern for 3 laps, climb the hill at a moderate pace, then attacks break lose just after the top into the wind.

3) Yelling "get out of the way" is not going to open up a line for you in a field sprint. On yesterday's up hill finish I was pinned on the far edge of the road when the guy infront ran out of gas,and there was no room to go around. Only thing to do was wait until an opening developed The guy behind me caught in the same circumstance was yelling at me to get out of the way, like he thought I had some obligation to pull off the road and yield to him.

(by the way I'm not complaining about getting boxed in, you pick your wheel and your line and you take your chances. Besides I wasn't going to win a hill top finish anyway.)



To the extent there's any theme here, announcing your presence and intentions, a la points 1 and 3 is going to shut down holes, not open them.
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Old 03-12-07, 06:27 AM   #2
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there's a 'hill' on the circuit where i race. it's nothing more than a bridge, and is a whopping +/- 30 meters long. nothing really, except there's almost alway a headwind right before it, and it breaks your rhythm.

ok, you get the picture.

my point: IME the attacks that count don't start before, or on the 'hill', they start on top of it.
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Old 03-12-07, 06:32 AM   #3
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Verbal motivation can be a powerful tool. I know a cat 1 who races lots of masters and wins often. He's very softspoken outside the peleton, but does some shouting when racing. I've heard him say after races that he didnt have any team mates in the field, so he had to use his mouth.

The thing about using your voice is you cant do it all the time or someone's going to smack you, and if used against you, recognize it and only pull or whatever if it suits you.
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Old 03-12-07, 06:35 AM   #4
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I'm suprised at how many people yell things like 'slowing' and 'hole' and 'gravel'
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Old 03-12-07, 06:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by recneps
I'm suprised at how many people yell things like 'slowing' and 'hole' and 'gravel'

Most people arn't that big of jack @sses to not point out pot holes and other road hazards. It is a unwritten code. Just because you are racing doesn't mean you have to be cut throat. (although I have seem some idiots really fight it out for a $10.00 gift card primes). I have found that whatever you do in a race will usually come around to haunt you a couple races later. There is no point in making enemies with people you see every weekend for 9 weeks in a row.
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Old 03-12-07, 06:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV
Verbal motivation can be a powerful tool. I know a cat 1 who races lots of masters and wins often. He's very softspoken outside the peleton, but does some shouting when racing. I've heard him say after races that he didnt have any team mates in the field, so he had to use his mouth.

The thing about using your voice is you cant do it all the time or someone's going to smack you, and if used against you, recognize it and only pull or whatever if it suits you.
I completely agree with this, and I talk all the time, trying to get people to do what I want. However, I'd suggest that "inside" is more likely to result in the inside line closing down.

And "go" "allez" "pick it up", "you can do it", "get on that wheel," etc, is going to be a lot more likely to get the desired result than "get out of the way". Which might very well just get you slowed down even more, human nature being what it is.
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Old 03-12-07, 06:54 AM   #7
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i'll never forget the guy who yelled "guys hold up!!!" right before everyone winded up for the sprint. we thought maybe one of the officials was yelling something so most of us slowed and looked around. the guy got a good jump on everyone. sneaky but effective.
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Old 03-12-07, 07:04 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MDcatV
Verbal motivation can be a powerful tool. I know a cat 1 who races lots of masters and wins often. He's very softspoken outside the peleton, but does some shouting when racing. I've heard him say after races that he didnt have any team mates in the field, so he had to use his mouth.

The thing about using your voice is you cant do it all the time or someone's going to smack you, and if used against you, recognize it and only pull or whatever if it suits you.
sounds like me, except that i'm not that soft-spoken off of the bike, and i do more than 'some' shouting when i race.

by now the regular guys i race against know i really mean it when i start shouting in english (as opposed to my key-rap dutch).
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Old 03-12-07, 07:13 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by botto
sounds like me, except that i'm not that soft-spoken off of the bike, and i do more than 'some' shouting when i race.
Why am I not surprised

Quote:
I'm suprised at how many people yell things like 'slowing' and 'hole' and 'gravel'
Not pointing these things out can get people hurt. However, some people tend to over do it.
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Old 03-12-07, 07:15 AM   #10
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Why am I not surprised


Not pointing these things out can get people hurt. However, some people tend to over do it.
Got me.
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Old 03-12-07, 07:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by botto
sounds like me, except that i'm not that soft-spoken off of the bike, and i do more than 'some' shouting when i race


Say it ain't so. You have a completely different persona online.

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Old 03-12-07, 07:26 AM   #12
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Here are some of my Cat 5 observations:

1) Myth, Cat 5 races are crash fests. Granted I only did 10 cat5 races but in those I saw 3 crashes. I've now done 4 cat 4 races and 1 45+ masters race. In the 4 cat 4 races I've seen at least 20 guys hit the deck, one ended up in the hospital. In the masters race the riding was down right sketchy, once these guys got a little fatigued they could ride a straight line if their lives depended on it.

2) Cat 5's all ride $10,000.00 bikes and roll up in Porsche Cayannes. I see the bling in every cat out there, it's not just the 5's.

My personal feeling is that cat 5's are the whipping boys of amature cycling. There are crashes in every cat. There are crashes caused by someone doing something really stupid in every cat (at least according to the guys involved in said crash). There are guys with money riding uber trick bikes in every cat. The only real difference in the cats is the speed at which all this is happening.
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Old 03-12-07, 07:28 AM   #13
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^^+1.

Anyway, merlin, haven't you been racing long enough to cat up? That would render the entire issue moot, at least for you. Around here I definitely see that the 3/4's race a lot smarter.
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Old 03-12-07, 07:58 AM   #14
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^^^^^
May have done my last Cat 5 race. Was just waiting until I got in a little better shape.
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Old 03-12-07, 08:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
Here are some of my Cat 5 observations:

1) Myth, Cat 5 races are crash fests. Granted I only did 10 cat5 races but in those I saw 3 crashes. I've now done 4 cat 4 races and 1 45+ masters race. In the 4 cat 4 races I've seen at least 20 guys hit the deck, one ended up in the hospital. In the masters race the riding was down right sketchy, once these guys got a little fatigued they could ride a straight line if their lives depended on it.

2) Cat 5's all ride $10,000.00 bikes and roll up in Porsche Cayannes. I see the bling in every cat out there, it's not just the 5's.

My personal feeling is that cat 5's are the whipping boys of amature cycling. There are crashes in every cat. There are crashes caused by someone doing something really stupid in every cat (at least according to the guys involved in said crash). There are guys with money riding uber trick bikes in every cat. The only real difference in the cats is the speed at which all this is happening.
used to be cat 4s, now they're not the lowest on the totem poll.

vis-a-vis the 3/10 crashes in the 5s, and the 4/4 crashes i the 4s: what was the differences in field sizes, and course layouts?
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Old 03-12-07, 08:26 AM   #16
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When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.
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Old 03-12-07, 08:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by EventServices
When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.
Should've punched him in the face, and went on with your day.

when people yell inside in the corner that is usually because the idiot infront of them cant hold his line through a corner, that deserves a punch in the face also.

it is okay to yell in races, especially if it gets the dumb and inexperienced ones out of the way, if someone gets mad punch them in the face.

If none of the above works for you, put your underwear on your head, you'll feel better.
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Old 03-12-07, 08:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by EventServices
When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.
The announcer said about the same thing at the Race for Humanity in Fl. something like Look out folks, make sure your out of the way, here comes the Cat 5 sprint!!

After all that it was an uneventful sprint.
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Old 03-12-07, 08:46 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bassplayinbiker

when people yell inside in the corner that is usually because the idiot infront of them cant hold his line through a corner, that deserves a punch in the face also.
that would be a legitimate reason to yell inside. These day's it's like siblings calling shotgun. Apparently some people think they get first dibs on a line because they called it.
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Old 03-12-07, 08:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices
When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.
Even if unintended, stuff like that can come across as condescending. I recall when I was a 5 and racing the Kelly Cup/Bikejam crit in baltimore, which is a NRC event. The announcer, who does alot of big races said something in his microphone to the effect of, "jeez, half you guys have your #s pinned on wrong" then laughed like what a bunch of morons. I found it condescending then and still do now. I stuck around that day to watch the pros race, and remember seeing at least 2 with #s on upside down, but I dont remember announcer dude saying anyone had their #s pinned on wrong.
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Old 03-12-07, 08:54 AM   #21
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I'm glad they approved my upgrade to Cat4 this morning, that race yesterday scared me pretty good.
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Old 03-12-07, 09:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by bassplayinbiker
Should've punched him in the face, and went on with your day.

when people yell inside in the corner that is usually because the idiot infront of them cant hold his line through a corner, that deserves a punch in the face also.

it is okay to yell in races, especially if it gets the dumb and inexperienced ones out of the way, if someone gets mad punch them in the face.

If none of the above works for you, put your underwear on your head, you'll feel better.
A great post! The bassplayer has managed to tie together 4 long standing themes on the board, in a semi coherent fashion. Yelling at Riders, Eleitism, Underwear/No Underwear, and Internet Tough Guy.
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Old 03-12-07, 09:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by botto
used to be cat 4s, now they're not the lowest on the totem poll.

vis-a-vis the 3/10 crashes in the 5s, and the 4/4 crashes i the 4s: what was the differences in field sizes, and course layouts?
Well I think it's more because of the constant bashing the 5's get on our local racing website. I really think the 5's fields are so much more concerned about not screwing up that they pay more attention. Once you are out the feeling is now I can be the racer I've always meant to be Last season the upper cats had more crashes than the 5's in RR's and Crits. The 3's were the worst offenders with crashes in nearly every sprint last season. The other factor that contributes to 5's having less finish line crashes is that there were far fewer bunch sprints. There were always the 5-10 strong guys that basically rode away in the last 2k to fight out.

Still I find pretty hypocritical to say that the 5's are a crash fest when there are crashes in every cat.
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Old 03-12-07, 09:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
that would be a legitimate reason to yell inside. These day's it's like siblings calling shotgun. Apparently some people think they get first dibs on a line because they called it.
I've only called it when I'm dead level with someone and they are pushing me into a culvert. This happened damn near every corner in the 45 masters race, some guy would come flying from the outside to grab the apex and then nearly take out three of us. Then apologize profusely for doing it. I finally said to one constant offender if you know I'm there then don't do it. Apologizing ain't gonna cut it if in a ditch. I put my hand on guys hips who are drifting over, I grabbed a guys jersey in the 45's race who was weaving so badly that he bumped me five or six times and told him to hold his f'n line, again out came the apologies.
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Old 03-12-07, 09:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
Here are some of my Cat 5 observations:

1) Myth, Cat 5 races are crash fests. Granted I only did 10 cat5 races but in those I saw 3 crashes. I've now done 4 cat 4 races and 1 45+ masters race. In the 4 cat 4 races I've seen at least 20 guys hit the deck, one ended up in the hospital.
2) Cat 5's all ride $10,000.00 bikes and roll up in Porsche Cayannes. I see the bling in every cat out there, it's not just the 5's.
I've done three races now as a Cat.4. No crashes in our field, but some in the 5's and one in the 1-2-3's. So, the Cat 4 field is always twice as big as the 5's, some times 3 times as big. When you average it out by number of riders, the 5's have WAY more crashes. The 3's crash as well. But it's usually not because they don't have the skills, a lot of what I've heard about is mechanical failures (flat tire, pedal unclipped, brakes froze).

Not all 5's roll up on $5000 bikes. But some do, and to me that's annoying, and stupid. I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available.
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