Yoshi

I know the requirement for upgrading to cat 4 is that you start 10 races. But what exactly qualifies as a race? I've done some USCF sanctioned roller races and some road races. Obviously the road races count but do the roller races?

I'm eager to upgrade because I'm really not comfortable riding with some of the other racers in the cat 5 pack.

EDIT: I know road and track are different categories as well, but would track races count towards a road upgrade and vice versa?

LowCel 

The roller races probably won't count since they really don't help you with your pack riding skills. I doubt the track races will count either since you probably aren't starting in a pack of 25 riders. Also the road races only count if there were 25 people in the cat 5's at the starting line.

Your other option is to get a bunch of top three finishes and request an early upgrade.

daneil

Races that qualify for the 5-4 upgrade are as follows (from the USCF rulebook, found here on the USACycling website):

5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races that meet the criteria in the table below (qualifying races). Local Associations may also establish policies where upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider education clinic.

Qualifying Road Races for each category

5 – 4 Men: Road Races, 15 miles; Crits, 10 miles; Minimum Field Size, 10; Experience, 10 races

LowCel 

Oops, my bad on the 25 entrants (which is actually 30). Had it confused with the 4-3 upgrade.

Yoshi

Thanks!

MDcatV

What is a roller race?

merlinextraligh

Everybody around here wants to get out of Cat 5, before they've even done 10 races, so that they don't have to ride with those dangerous, inexperienced, newbies.

And who are these "others"

To paraphrase Pogo, "we've met the enemy and they are us."

popdelusions

Road upgrade is 10 mass starts -- no roller races, TTs, or any permutations thereof -- with the aforementioned field size limits (which are pretty much a given around NYC since all of the races are so well attended). Judy Miller was pretty strict (with good reason, I think) about sticking to the letter of the law, so you probably have to serve out your 10-start sentence — there haven't been any early upgrades for a while. Judy's being replaced, so I'm not even sure who's approving upgrades right now for our region, or what their take on the early upgrade situation will be.

Track is totally separate (upgrading from 5-4 on the track requires 5 track days and the sign-off of the official in charge — that'd be Alan Atwood in your case).

Yoshi

I've raced on the track and have raced "unofficially." Most of the other Cat 5 riders are pretty okay, but there are a good number who don't have very good handling skills or pack ettiquette.

And I'm okay with just getting through my 10 races. I was just curious/hoping that other races I've done would count.

LowCel 

Judy gave me an early upgrade (after 7 races) after the ohio rep sent her an e-mail letting her know that he thought I should be given an upgrade after five podiums including a win in my first seven races. My two non-podiums were for very good reasons though. One race my teammate was unconscious in a puddle of blood so I stopped. The other one my teammate was on a solo breakaway so I had to sit up.

Yoshi

Crashes during a roller race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DbZ5Ne2rGA

Video my friend and I made about "roller-culture" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7SKjIxlbHM (with some good racing footage during the credits.)

TheKillerPenguin

Any idea why Judy's being replaced?

daneil

Big mystery around the NE. Nobody really knows why she got let go in the first place. To be honest she was strict with the upgrade rules, but as she should have been. NY's put out some damn fine racers since Judy's been holding the reigns and I'd venture to say that at least a part of that was that her strict adherence to the upgrade rules meant everyone some some well needed pack handling experience.

LowCel 

Was she let go or did she transfer? I thought I heard someone at last weeks race in Ohio mention that she is now their rep. I could have mis-understood though.

MDcatV

I guess that's just too simple for me to have figgered out on my own. Not intending to diminish these roller races, but I cant imagine an upgrade coordinator considering those to be appropriate for inclusion in an upgrade request.

TheKillerPenguin

I hope she wasn't fired. Even though I had to apply for my 4-3 upgrade twice, she was fair and reasonable. Still, I thought it was kind of funny that I was the #4 ranked Cat4 in the country and Judy wouldn't let me upgrade to a cat3 until I got my 20 points

brianappleby

related question. I'm about to hit my 10th mass start race. What exactly do I need to do in order to upgrade to cat-4?

I'm not in a hurry to get out. I just want to race w/ my teammates who are 4's; carpools etc.

So what do I do once I've finished 10 races?

Thanks,
B.

Yoshi

Yeah I figured I'd ask to make sure. I mean you do need to be able to hold your line at 180-200rpm in roller races which does help when riding in a pack, but it's not even close to the same thing.

superdex

it's not this?

Yoshi

Win.

popdelusions

She was fired, but it's not at all clear what happened or why. Steve Johnson sent around a completely non-explanatory explanatory email, and nobody i've talked to seems to know the actual story. so the rumor mill is all there is for now.

She's supposedly still working as an official, so hopefully she'll be around. She was very helpful in the few interactions I had with her, and though she was certainly a stickler for the rules it seemed like she stuck to that position for good reason and not just to make people unhappy.

popdelusions

Just log into your account at USACycling, there's an automated form to fill out. Just enter a race resume and you should get the upgrade in a matter of days.

TheKillerPenguin

I really hope she wasn't fired for being too tough on upgrades. She was just following the rules.

cat4ever

Roller races are time trials and time trials don't count toward upgrading.

popdelusions

I can't imagine that was the reason...I think it's more likely just part of the ongoing power struggle at USAC.