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Old 03-16-07, 07:10 AM   #1
Lithuania
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beaten to death question about wheels

I am heading to arizona for a little vacation and bringing my bike with me.

While out there I am going to be doing a lot of riding and will race in my first road race (everything has been crits so far).

The plan has been to just go out there with my new heavy PT wheel.

Looking more into this road race I see its got over 5000+ ft of climbing in 62 miles including a 7 mile climb of 1700ft. So now I am thinking maybe I should leave the PT wheel at home and just bring my lighter reynolds wheel instead.

However I am not really sure the weight difference would even matter at this point in my racing. In the few rides I have done with the new PT wheel it has felt slower then my race alta wheel but I am not expert.

I just got the power meter so I am still learning how to use it. Not having it for the week out there wouldnt be such a big deal for that reason but at the same time it would be a great chance to really get familiar with it.

I dont have room to bring and extra wheel unfortunately.

thoughts?
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Old 03-16-07, 07:13 AM   #2
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If you are going to do more training than racing I'd just bring the PT. Besides you'll have the data from the race off of the PT and that may end up being very useful information.
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Old 03-16-07, 07:17 AM   #3
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Bring the powertap. At most it's a pound heavier. The difference will be basically unquantifiable.

If you go to Kreuzotter, and plug in 8% grade, and 300 watts, varying bike weight by a pound doesn't change bike speed at all, because the difference is within the rounding error.
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Old 03-16-07, 07:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riskus
I am heading to arizona for a little vacation and bringing my bike with me.

While out there I am going to be doing a lot of riding and will race in my first road race (everything has been crits so far).

The plan has been to just go out there with my new heavy PT wheel.

Looking more into this road race I see its got over 5000+ ft of climbing in 62 miles including a 7 mile climb of 1700ft. So now I am thinking maybe I should leave the PT wheel at home and just bring my lighter reynolds wheel instead.

However I am not really sure the weight difference would even matter at this point in my racing.
In the few rides I have done with the new PT wheel it has felt slower then my race alta wheel but I am not expert.

I just got the power meter so I am still learning how to use it. Not having it for the week out there wouldnt be such a big deal for that reason but at the same time it would be a great chance to really get familiar with it.

I dont have room to bring and extra wheel unfortunately.


thoughts?
In the words of the Cranberries:

In your head, in your head, they are crying...

In your head, in your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie,
Hey, hey, hey. What's in your head,
In your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie?
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Old 03-16-07, 07:22 AM   #5
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AZ for a race, color me bitter as I look out the window here in the beautiful WDC area.

I'd take the PT wheel, it'll be good data to help you identify strengths and weaknesses in your racing to set up training for the remainder of your season. Plus, everyone knows that power data and charts are always more important in evaluating how baddazz of a racer you are than actual race results (just playin' - see 1st line above for explanation).
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Old 03-16-07, 07:22 AM   #6
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alright the power tap it is.
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Old 03-16-07, 07:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV
AZ for a race, color me bitter as I look out the window here in the beautiful WDC area.
when my mom first moved out there a few years ago i told her good luck ever seeing me! Now its like the greatest place to go when I need to get away cheap and still be able to do a ton of stuff.
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Old 03-16-07, 07:25 AM   #8
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One extra pound from the PM may require a single watt to overcome.

5000+ft of climbing over 62 miles is an average of 1.5+% and 1700ft over 7 miles is an average of 4.6%. +1 - the PT isn't going to be noticeable.
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Old 03-16-07, 07:25 AM   #9
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Always preferred CX's on a box section rim for racing. A lot of Crits, and on bumpy MI roads. Always felt like this combination tooks the bumps and stayed on the ground better than Clinchers or aero rims.
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Old 03-16-07, 07:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRacer
One extra pound from the PM may require a single watt to overcome.

5000+ft of climbing over 62 miles is an average of 1.5+% and 1700ft over 7 miles is an average of 4.6%. +1 - the PT isn't going to be noticeable.
thats what I figured. I just wanted to make sure and kill time at work making and reading this thread.

thanks
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Old 03-16-07, 07:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botto
In the words of the Cranberries:

In your head, in your head, they are crying...

In your head, in your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie,
Hey, hey, hey. What's in your head,
In your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie?
Man this is the truth. One of my training partners last season was an uber fast cat 3, and cat 3 Stat Crit champion. He told me that the pain in legs is all in my head. I've really bought into this kind of thinking this year and he's right. If you block out the negative thoughts when the pressure is on you can ride through anything.
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Old 03-16-07, 10:26 AM   #12
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Ask me about .46 seconds lost per mile, or .8 seconds lost per mile and what that's worth. Go ahead, ask me.

Or clawing back a foot when it's the difference between being OTB or still in the mix.

If you're using the race for training, then use it for training and bring the number generator. If you're seriously racing for a finish then you're handicapping yourself on weight and perhaps aerodynamics by not using your best equipment.

And Merlin, respect man, but racing is done in the physical universe, not the online calculator
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Old 03-16-07, 10:33 AM   #13
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vino,

im hardly at the level where fractions of a second are going to matter. Finishing this race would be pretty great for me since up to this point I have only done 6 crits.
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Old 03-16-07, 10:39 AM   #14
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Testing is racing and racing is testing. PM numbers from a races are the best data to analyze for targeting training "opportunities" or as an indicator of how well your doing in your current training plan.
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Old 03-16-07, 10:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRacer
Testing is racing and racing is testing. PM numbers from a races are the best data to analyze for targeting training "opportunities" or as an indicator of how well your doing in your current training plan.
Agreed. However if you are using an B or a C race for training and using your PM that's one thing. For an A race that I go into with every intention of winning I'll do that with my sharpest weapon. If it includes a lot of climbing I'm using my KOM's if it's flat or rolling I'll use the Stratus. Race bike with KOM's=15.8#, bike with Startus=16.3#,bike with PT 17.5#.
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Old 03-16-07, 10:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riskus
vino,

im hardly at the level where fractions of a second are going to matter. Finishing this race would be pretty great for me since up to this point I have only done 6 crits.
You shall finish. And you shall rock. Vino has decreed it.

With that kind of mileage and climbing you'll be out for 3+ hours. Be sure to bring plenty of food, check on neutral support for water, and I'd strongly suggest bringing along some electrolyte caps and downing at least a couple an hour depending on the temperature, more if it's hot. I keep mine in little two sided snap close pill holders. Much easier than digging through a zip lock and they don't melt into your jersey.

Good luck and report back!
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Old 03-16-07, 11:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
Agreed. However if you are using an B or a C race for training and using your PM that's one thing. For an A race that I go into with every intention of winning I'll do that with my sharpest weapon. If it includes a lot of climbing I'm using my KOM's if it's flat or rolling I'll use the Stratus. Race bike with KOM's=15.8#, bike with Startus=16.3#,bike with PT 17.5#.
I'm still debating this. I'm really happy with the way my PT SL/RR 1.1 rides, and in fact it's a little comfier ride than the Fulcrum 1 in the back. The weight difference is something like 300g. I have every intention of duking it out for the win this Sunday in my "A" race.

If I had a pair of non-powertap Zipp 404's lying around I'd say it's a no-brainer and take the PT off the back. But I'm just not sure if it's worth it to throw the Fulcrum 1 on the back or not. I'm leaning toward having the data from the PT and keeping the Fulcrum 1 up front.

Guess I'm just not sure how much of a performance advantage there would be, if any. There would be the "these are my race wheels" placebo effect, though.
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Old 03-16-07, 11:03 AM   #18
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I'm actually a little hypocritcal in that I just got a set of Zipp 303 tubulars (1120 grams as measured on the LBS scale) that I'll use for races with lots of climbing, but I still intend to use my PT for the large majority of races.


Plus, I can weigh my bike with the 303's and feel all smug owning a 14lb bike.
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Old 03-16-07, 11:06 AM   #19
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When it comes to the races around here I plan on using my PT for all races this season regardless if they are an A race or not. Perhaps next year after I have a full seasons worth of data I will consider having seperate race wheels.
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