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  1. #1
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    Thoughts on training and racing.

    Well Ive got a little bit of a deliema, I want to race almost every weekend this season, most times 2 or 3 times a weekend.

    Problem with this is, If i race on the weekend, I can only train hard Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Making thursday recovery, and friday prep for saturday.

    Now the weekends I take a week off i double up on training, and train all week hard.

    Example of a race week:
    Monday: intervals 2-3 hours
    Tuesday: fast crit ride, 27mph avg (1 hour)
    Wednesday: Endurance 3-4 hours on bike
    Thursday: recovers 1 hour
    Friday: race prep 1.5 hours some sprinting some hill
    Saturday: race
    Sunday race: then the next week will start with a recovery.

    I'm doing like a 3 days, then rest, then 3 days.

    I'm curious if I will get any stronger doing this, Im worried about never getting stronger than my competition just staying just as strong as them, If this happens how do I win?

    Any advice on how to become faster while racing every weekend?

    Will this training schedule put me ahead of most Cat 4s, by mid season?

  2. #2
    . botto's Avatar
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    if you race on both saturday and sunday, then you should only spend one day riding hard over the following 5 days.

    less is more, and more is less. got it?

  3. #3
    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    Some people can probably handle that level of volume but most people can't. I would say that your plan is definitely on the aggressive side so overtraining is a risk. But you might be one of those who can handle it.

    --Steve

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    Go Pre! DreamTheater's Avatar
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    There is too much intensity in your program.

  5. #5
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo
    Some people can probably handle that level of volume but most people can't. I would say that your plan is definitely on the aggressive side so overtraining is a risk. But you might be one of those who can handle it.

    --Steve
    if he/she is a Cat 4, I doubt it.

  6. #6
    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    if you race on both saturday and sunday, then you should only spend one day riding hard over the following 5 days.

    less is more, and more is less. got it?
    I agree.

    Only one weekday can be truly hard without compromising the quality of your intervals or weekend races. A day completely off won’t make you slow either. Riding almost everyday is fine, bagging yourself everyday, not so much.

  7. #7
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    I rode myself into a bigarsed hole last year racing twice every weekend, and a lot of Tuesday night crits or competitive group rides.

    It was bad enough that after a long time off the bike following an ACL tear I was substantially stronger.

    This year I'm going to be much, much smarter about mid week efforts. Race Saturday/Sunday - loafing 30-60 minutes of 39 tooth love on Monday, still probably do the Tuesday night crits for intensity and then mostly just Z2 rides to keep the aerobic system in order. I now realize how much stupid time I spent in Z3 last year just digging myself deeper and deeper and deeper into a grave of slow.

  8. #8
    NorCal Climbing Freak
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    Racing is training, and training is racing.

    I'm in your boat right now. Two races on the weekend doesn't leave much for hard work in the week. Either 2X20 on Tue/Thur or VO2 on Tue / 2X20 on Thurs. And that is really all I can handle. Plus 2 hours L2 on Wed and a recovery ride Fri. Monday off completely.

    Think of the races as part and parcel of your training plan. Or, like me, start your build at the beginning of January - but that's hardly help at this point.

    One of the first things that goes in my schedule is those 3-4 hour endurance rides. I don't race that long anyways. But, when there is a break in my race schedule, I devote a bit more time to work on that long endurance.

    Your race prep is also borderline too long. Anything over an hour is iffy. Take a day off, tone done the long ride, and spread out the intervals would be my advice.

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    Thats overtraining for a Cat5? People have been telling me if I want to reach my goal as a cat 3 by the end of the season i should ride 300miles a week.

    thats only like 12 hours a week, could anyone more experianced than myself advise a better schedule?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    Thats overtraining for a Cat5? People have been telling me if I want to reach my goal as a cat 3 by the end of the season i should ride 300miles a week.

    thats only like 12 hours a week, could anyone more experianced than myself advise a better schedule?
    straight up hours mean nothing. you want quality hours. 12 hours of endurance a week is not going get u to cat3. and there are no set hours for various level riders. you train at a duration/intensity your body can handle.

  11. #11
    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    Thats overtraining for a Cat5? People have been telling me if I want to reach my goal as a cat 3 by the end of the season i should ride 300miles a week.
    Those people are giving you really bad advice. That much mileage during the middle of the season makes no sense whatsoever. During the season it's all about intensity and recovery. Your intensity looks great. Your recovery looks to be lacking--but you won't know for sure until you try it for a few weeks.

    --Steve

  12. #12
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    My form seems to be on, my last race I pulled most of the race, rode off the front twice for about 7 miles and still was able to sprint it out for 4th.

    should I cut it down to 1 endurance day a week, and one day of intervals then keep the other days to recovery and race on the weekends?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    i should ride 300miles a week.

    thats only like 12 hours a week
    is all your training downhill?

    with that schedule, by mid season you'll probably be so burnt out that you'll be dropped by most cat 4s and left wondering what you did wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV
    is all your training downhill?

    with that schedule, by mid season you'll probably be so burnt out that you'll be dropped by most cat 4s and left wondering what you did wrong.
    You edited my post so it dosnt make sense, I never said I was riding 300 miles a week 12 hours a week did I?

    And I'm sorry how does someone get burnt out? I dont understand the concept of training harder and getting slower as long as you recover properly, please explain the physics behind that.

  15. #15
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    Recovery is whats in question.

    Last season I could recover enough to not get dropped or finish in the back of races, and fulfill my mileage habit. At the same time, I never recovered enough to do well. After doing great in the early season races I was soon pack fodder because I was training too much...

  16. #16
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    Thats overtraining for a Cat5? People have been telling me if I want to reach my goal as a cat 3 by the end of the season i should ride 300miles a week.

    thats only like 12 hours a week, could anyone more experianced than myself advise a better schedule?
    If you can really average 25mph in your training, alert Disco and turn pro immediately. I'll be your agent.

    Note: I did not edit your post, but I can do simple division. Luckily for you, you're not shooting for entry to the Ivy League or Oxford. I think Cat 3 will be easier.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    You edited my post so it dosnt make sense, I never said I was riding 300 miles a week 12 hours a week did I?

    And I'm sorry how does someone get burnt out? I dont understand the concept of training harder and getting slower as long as you recover properly, please explain the physics behind that.
    I was just tweaking you on the 12 hrs to go 300 mi.

    Fitness = overload and recovery. Too much overload, you accumulate fatigue. Too much fatigue accumulated, you get burnt out. I'm not an ex. phys., so I can only report to you my own experience and observations. Maybe your physiology is such that you can take that kind of overload, that's part of what separates those who ascend through the ranks quickly from the rest of us, but probably not.

    If you're going to race on Sat and Sun, I'd do something like this:

    Monday <1hr of recovery pace, really annoyingly slow, never out of your sm. chain ring.
    Tues - practice crit with focus on learning to race, you'll get your intensity as a byproduct; or short intervals w/minimal recovery e.g. 2 sets 10x30"on/30"off. 1.5 - 2 hrs.
    Wed - why the 3 - 4 hrs? That's alot, shorten to 2 hrs. and work on long 2x20 type threshold intervals
    Th - off, clean your bike
    Fri - race prep, 1 hr. with some sprints, 4 or 5, 300M in length on different terrain
    Sat - race
    Sun - race

    You'll have to do some adjusting depending on your level of fitness and fatigue, and you will get fatigued, but that's what I'd go for. YMMV.

  18. #18
    Seek the Joy
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    its biology not physics

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    Thats overtraining for a Cat5? People have been telling me if I want to reach my goal as a cat 3 by the end of the season i should ride 300miles a week.

    thats only like 12 hours a week, could anyone more experianced than myself advise a better schedule?
    So you're a cat 5? And you want to get to cat 3 by the end of the season?
    First off, I highly reccommend getting on a team. You'll get lots of great advice, especially on how to train. Going from 5 to 3 in one season is possible (so I hear), but it certainly is not the norm.

  20. #20
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    E P O

  21. #21
    faster than your mom bodaciousguy's Avatar
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    Hello recneps.

    I'm trying to do the same thing you are doing, racing twice a weekend. I found out that as long as I'm racing twice a weekend and recovering from those weekends then the training I do between weekends is basically something to keep my fitness level from falling before the next weekend. It's difficult to race to my maximum every weekend while training hard; I did it last year and got HORRIBLE results in the Cat 4s.

    My point is don't train hard during the week while racing 2 days a weekend.

    I'm a Cat 3 now and do 3x5 minute intervals and some pre race day intesity during the week. That is it! That kind of training load was nothing compared to what I was doing as a Cat 4 but I'm having so much success in the Cat 3s this year and I think its because I kept my body fresh before the weekend. That is all.

  22. #22
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    You don't say what types of races either, which would change some of the perspective on things. I'm still in 500km weeks but my events are longer road races. 300+ mile weeks would seem like quite a bit of overkill if you're just doing 2 1 hr crits on the weekends.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  23. #23
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivegotabike
    its biology not physics
    Ex. Phys. = Exercise Physiology.



    Is any other "young" person (x<25 y/o) embarassed by this through association?
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

  24. #24
    Senior Member sverrefehn's Avatar
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    I only know of one Cat 4 who can do the kind of training load you propose without burning out. He is on my team and we call him Goomba. If you've read "Lance Armstrong's War" than you know what I'm talking about.

  25. #25
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    I come to these threads and find it amusing that we associate the amount of time training with racing category. What we typically don't know about folks is their riding background, so to say "there's no need for YOU to do that training as a Cat 5 because it's too much for YOU" says that Cat 5 = someone who just started riding.

    However, Cat 5 does not equal just started riding. It equals just started racing USCF events.

    The flip side of that, for Spencer (easier than typing it backwards), is that from all I know - which is little enough - going from 5 to 3 in a season will be a challenge which is going to involve some committed and focused time on the bike. Coming here to get your initial training advice ain't such a great idea. You should be getting in the books and learning about training methodology to create a training plan based on the amount of time you have and geared around the types of events you are competing in.

    If you don't want to take the time to do that, then you're going to have a very hard time getting a training plan from any of us that will help you accomplish your goals. The next thing you would want to do is weigh your goal against your income and determine if you're going to take on a coach.

    The training plan you posted here is pretty broad, which tells most of us that you haven't really done a lot of research to develop your plan and are just shooting in the dark. Do a search of the forums for the most recommended books on training, drop the $50-$100 on all of them and develop a training plan that maximizes your time on the bike.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

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