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Old 04-06-07, 08:15 AM   #1
Rocket Richard
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Which wheelsets do sprinters usually prefer?

I'm mainly wondering if spinters like light weight climbing wheels because of their good acceleration for the final sprint or a more deep dish rim that would probably hold a higher top end. I'm on AC350's and I can make a gap quickly but I feel I could improve the top end with a more aero rim. Thoughts?????
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Old 04-06-07, 08:21 AM   #2
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A set of Boras/404s/DVs would weigh less, be more aero, and would have a lesser MoI (accelerated quicker) even at the same weight due to the depth of the rim and the fact that it is spread over a wider area.
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Old 04-06-07, 01:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Richard
I'm mainly wondering if spinters like light weight climbing wheels because of their good acceleration for the final sprint or a more deep dish rim that would probably hold a higher top end.
This is from the Keirin but that's pretty much a sprint event. It shown how important these riders consider weight and aero.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...tc074/IMG_2645
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Old 04-06-07, 02:42 PM   #4
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I wondered this when I was in shape etc. I did an experiment using virtually every wheel I had (and borrowed a couple I didn't).

My lightest wheels were Mavic GEL 280's and Campy Record Crono's (285 gm advertised weight), both in 28H. I also had Zipp 340's 24H, 440's 16/24H, Spinergy Rev-X's, Campy Ventos (deep AL rims), Specialized TriSpokes, a prototype rear disk with a 280gm rim. I did sprints for a few hours on the same stretch of road and switched wheels every now and then.

I found that the wheels, from fastest to slowest, were as follows:

TriSpokes
440's/disk
Rev-X
Vento/340
280's (the box section wheels)

I found that I accelerated quickest with the disk, 340's, and 280s (which meant my various 280's were probably in the mid 300's in reality). Quickly, if I recall correctly, is within 5-6 revolutions of my jump. I was starting my sprint at the same part of the road at about 30 mph.

440's, rear disk, and TriSpokes were the fastest. Used a 54x11. Trispokes I couldn't accelerate anymore but I felt I could have. I was maxed in the 440's. It took probably twice as many revolutions but these wheels kept accelerating. My fastest top speed was on the TriSpoke's almost at the end of my testing (I also rode them first).

Note: I shift in my sprints so I didn't jump in my top gear.

The Rev-X's had nothing going for it - moderately hard to accelerate but top speed limited. Ditto Ventos.

340's and 280's got reserved for races with hairpins. I've given them away over the years as I don't have a lot of those races. And I don't do road races.

440's, Trispokes (and my current DV's) are my standard race wheels. They're worth 4-6 mph in an all out, cross/tailwind sprint compared to box section/non-aero wheels. In a headwind I'd put it at 2-3 mph. However you have to do a long sprint to take advantage of the higher top end.

hope this helps as long as you're not sprinting against me
cdr
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Old 04-06-07, 02:46 PM   #5
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Stiff ones.
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Old 04-06-07, 02:52 PM   #6
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Stiff ones.
So the Cypress likes stiff ones???????? Sorry I guess no matter how old I get I will still be immature.
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Old 04-06-07, 02:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
I wondered this when I was in shape etc. I did an experiment using virtually every wheel I had (and borrowed a couple I didn't).

My lightest wheels were Mavic GEL 280's and Campy Record Crono's (285 gm advertised weight), both in 28H. I also had Zipp 340's 24H, 440's 16/24H, Spinergy Rev-X's, Campy Ventos (deep AL rims), Specialized TriSpokes, a prototype rear disk with a 280gm rim. I did sprints for a few hours on the same stretch of road and switched wheels every now and then.

I found that the wheels, from fastest to slowest, were as follows:

TriSpokes
440's/disk
Rev-X
Vento/340
280's (the box section wheels)

I found that I accelerated quickest with the disk, 340's, and 280s (which meant my various 280's were probably in the mid 300's in reality). Quickly, if I recall correctly, is within 5-6 revolutions of my jump. I was starting my sprint at the same part of the road at about 30 mph.

440's, rear disk, and TriSpokes were the fastest. Used a 54x11. Trispokes I couldn't accelerate anymore but I felt I could have. I was maxed in the 440's. It took probably twice as many revolutions but these wheels kept accelerating. My fastest top speed was on the TriSpoke's almost at the end of my testing (I also rode them first).

Note: I shift in my sprints so I didn't jump in my top gear.

The Rev-X's had nothing going for it - moderately hard to accelerate but top speed limited. Ditto Ventos.

340's and 280's got reserved for races with hairpins. I've given them away over the years as I don't have a lot of those races. And I don't do road races.

440's, Trispokes (and my current DV's) are my standard race wheels. They're worth 4-6 mph in an all out, cross/tailwind sprint compared to box section/non-aero wheels. In a headwind I'd put it at 2-3 mph. However you have to do a long sprint to take advantage of the higher top end.

hope this helps as long as you're not sprinting against me
cdr
too many variable conditions for this kind of testing to be considered reliable or informative.
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Old 04-06-07, 03:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BlessedHellride
So the Cypress likes stiff ones?
Well sure, doesn't everyone?
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Old 04-06-07, 03:47 PM   #9
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Well sure, doesn't everyone?

im going to openly admit right now that i do NOT like stiff ones.


lol.
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Old 04-06-07, 07:48 PM   #10
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so, um, you like 'em flaccid, limp, and otherwise flexy?

nttawwt.
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Old 04-06-07, 09:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediemracing
They're worth 4-6 mph in an all out, cross/tailwind sprint compared to box section/non-aero wheels. In a headwind I'd put it at 2-3 mph. However you have to do a long sprint to take advantage of the higher top end.
I have to call BS on this one. No wheel is going to give you 4-6 mph. That's absurd.
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Old 04-06-07, 09:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by stea1thviper
too many variable conditions for this kind of testing to be considered reliable or informative.
From a lab point of view, true.

I should point out some other things - same tires (all Vittoria CX's except I used Michelins on the Ventos and one TriSpoke which were clinchers), same bike, same computer, the switch took place at a shop on the route, the route was approx 3/4 mile, and I did anywhere from 4-6 sprints per stint. The sprints were jumps to max speed, not sustained. I went back to the fastest wheels of the test when I was tired and was still able to replicate the top speeds within 1-2 mph. Finally, although wind can and does change significantly, the pattern of the wind where this took place is typically to go one direction till 2 or 3 pm, then reverse (as the land heats up and cools down relative to the massive body of water a couple miles away). I used this wind pattern (I worked at the shop for 8 years) to get a favorable wind (crosswind on the sprint point, mostly blocked by a building). It was a tailwind leading up to the sprint.

And although I was skeptical of the findings and still tried to use light but non-aero wheels, I found consistently, over the next 10-12 years (I did this test before 1995) that the basic findings held true - that light wheels definitely jump better and aero wheels have a higher top speed. I guess that is the point I'm trying to make.

I would suspect that someone who tries a similar experiment (whether in a lab or on the road) will be able to confirm my claims because although my methodology might be rough, the difference in speeds was significant. The lowest top speed of the wheels I "tested" was 42 mph. I could consistently hit 46 mph on the three fastest wheels (max 48 mph but I could not replicate it). I think that's a huge difference based on how hard I tried to go faster on the lightest wheels. I just couldn't.

Light wheels accelerate better, no question about that. Aero wheels are definitely faster. Ultimately what type of wheel is better in a sprint? It depends on the sprint and which trait it will favor.

Of course, if I had it my way, everyone would be on light non-aero wheels. This way I'd have the advantage of having aero wheels like I did for a good 8-10 years. Now even the conservative racers have aero wheels. Oh well.

cdr
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Old 04-07-07, 04:54 AM   #13
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aero & stiff, I'd worry about weight last
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Old 04-07-07, 05:06 AM   #14
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I'd take a pair of Erik Zabel's wheels...
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