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Old 04-06-07, 07:22 PM   #1
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powertap or ergomo?

I keep going back and forth!

I'd like to get a powermeter, but it'd be more for metering my efforts in races than training (I blow up real easily). Obviously once I had it I would train with it, but I just can't make up my mind which one to get.

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Old 04-06-07, 07:54 PM   #2
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Had I the cash, I would have bought the Ergomo. As I didn't, I got the PowerTap.

I just would have preferred the ability to use my boutique wheels.
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Old 04-06-07, 08:07 PM   #3
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Unless you already have ISIS or square-taper cranks, remember that you need new cranks for the Ergomo... I too wish I had the cash for it, though. I almost talked myself into it.
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Old 04-06-07, 08:13 PM   #4
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Other than price, what are the downsides to the Ergomo? I am sure like all of the others there has to be something. I know it only does power on one crank. But I thought I also heard it has to be shipped back to Germany to replace the battery.

-D
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Old 04-06-07, 08:14 PM   #5
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So, with the Ergomo, can you replace the bearings with standard $10 cartridges? BBs don't last forever (my sealed units seem to die in around 18 months -- 3-4 years out of a loose-ball unit).

Actually, what about the PT hub bearings? Replaceable indefinitely? What is the life expectancy of the electronics? I'm really thinking about making a move on something here...
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Old 04-06-07, 08:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete
Unless you already have ISIS or square-taper cranks, remember that you need new cranks for the Ergomo... I too wish I had the cash for it, though. I almost talked myself into it.
I was on a couple of websites and nobody mentions this. Will this Ergomo work with a traditional Dura Ace crankset. If not, why?
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Old 04-06-07, 08:48 PM   #7
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what sort of BB does a "traditional" DA crankset use? I know Ergomo offers square-taper and ISIS. Does the crank you have in mind use something different?
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Old 04-06-07, 08:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
Actually, what about the PT hub bearings? Replaceable indefinitely? What is the life expectancy of the electronics? I'm really thinking about making a move on something here...

PT pro or lower is standard cone/cup - which most folks replace with duraace pretty quickly after.

PT SL and 2.4 are sealed cartridge. The axle nuts come loose pretty easily which I have set to tighten every 1000 km. Some folks use loctite, but I have a thing about chemical compounds close to a $1000 electronics package, so I'll just tighten mine in regular maintenance runs around the cassette/drivetrain.
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Old 04-06-07, 09:11 PM   #9
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I bought the PowerTap because I could easily switch it between bikes or even set it up on someone else's.
That is one of teh big advantages of the PT. With ther ergomo, one nice feature is that you get a lot of the cyclingpeaks variables on-the-fly like normalized power, intensity factor etc. That can make it easier to tune workouts where you want to get a certain TSS per ride. you just keep going until you get up to that value instead of overshooting. I believe you may even get altitude also with the ergomo.

The big problem is the whole BB thing. It doesn't work with certain setups.
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Old 04-06-07, 09:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platypus
what sort of BB does a "traditional" DA crankset use? I know Ergomo offers square-taper and ISIS. Does the crank you have in mind use something different?
10 spd DA cranksets use the Shimano Hollowtech 2 system with the outboard BB Cups. Ergomo is not compatible with Shimano 10 spd systems. I believe that Ergomo will work with the Shimano 9 spd Octalink BB's. Will also work with Campy, and ISIS BB's, such as Stronglight, Zipp, etc.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a power meter, but I ride 3 different bikes and about 4 different wheelsets, and it's tough to decide on a BB/crankset or hub based unit. The more I think about it, the more it seems to make most sense on the bike that I train on the most, even it means not getting power data from my races (I usually race on an older bike, unless it's a RR or I'm feeling confident in the course and field at crits). If the Ergomo worked with the DA 10 spd, I'd get one right now. I'm debating getting the Ergomo and Stronglight crankset, or getting the SRM. I think the Ergomo + crankset would quite a bit cheaper. I just don't want to limit myself to one wheelset, with the Powertap. I'd like to hear any input/suggestions, considering the circumstances.

I met someone a couple of years ago from the "other" forum, who was working on developing a power meter that would actually be in the pedals. I wish something like that would come out, that would be the solution to the one bike, or one wheelset dilema.
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Old 04-06-07, 10:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Roadie
I met someone a couple of years ago from the "other" forum, who was working on developing a power meter that would actually be in the pedals. I wish something like that would come out, that would be the solution to the one bike, or one wheelset dilema.
http://www.microsporttech.com/


Shame the ibike just doesn't seem quite there. It would be near perfect for the multi bike issue.

-D
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Old 04-06-07, 10:11 PM   #12
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the microsport would be nice, but it can't take into account those times you're pulling up on the pedal during the upstroke. Not sure how much that *really* matters...

My problem with the Ibike is that it's really just estimating your wattage based on weight, wheel speed, air speed, and incline. Seems to me that it'd be marginally better than the HAC4's wattage estimate (which uses wheel speed, weight, and incline) but not a whole lot better. If I'm spending a bunch of money on a wattage device, I want it measured not estimated.
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Old 04-06-07, 10:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Roadie
Ergomo is not compatible with Shimano 10 spd systems.
It's true that ergomo is not compatible with Shimano outboard-bearing BBs/cranksets, but it will work just fine with the rest of a 10s drivetrain. You would need a new crankset, one compatible with whatever BB style you get on the ergomo. ergomo themselves have cranksets, but you can get any crankset that is compatible with square-taper, ISIS, etc. that comes with the ergomo.
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Old 04-06-07, 10:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platypus
the microsport would be nice, but it can't take into account those times you're pulling up on the pedal during the upstroke. Not sure how much that *really* matters...

My problem with the Ibike is that it's really just estimating your wattage based on weight, wheel speed, air speed, and incline. Seems to me that it'd be marginally better than the HAC4's wattage estimate (which uses wheel speed, weight, and incline) but not a whole lot better. If I'm spending a bunch of money on a wattage device, I want it measured not estimated.
I wonder if it's safe to assume that the relative power will still be the same. If you're working twice as hard on the downstroke, then you're probably working around twice as hard on the upstroke?

I also wonder if the microsport will allow easy placement in either shoe, so you can check leg differences (I have an injury in my past that has my legs out of balance -- I think).
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Old 04-06-07, 11:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'nother
It's true that ergomo is not compatible with Shimano outboard-bearing BBs/cranksets, but it will work just fine with the rest of a 10s drivetrain. You would need a new crankset, one compatible with whatever BB style you get on the ergomo. ergomo themselves have cranksets, but you can get any crankset that is compatible with square-taper, ISIS, etc. that comes with the ergomo.
You're right, I was sloppy with my comment, but that's what I meant
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Old 04-06-07, 11:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derath
http://www.microsporttech.com/


Shame the ibike just doesn't seem quite there. It would be near perfect for the multi bike issue.

-D
I'd never heard of the Microsport, until now. Interesting, I'll have to see if there are any reviews out there.
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Old 04-07-07, 12:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
I wonder if it's safe to assume that the relative power will still be the same. If you're working twice as hard on the downstroke, then you're probably working around twice as hard on the upstroke?

I also wonder if the microsport will allow easy placement in either shoe, so you can check leg differences (I have an injury in my past that has my legs out of balance -- I think).
Definitely not the case for me. I only apply significant power on the upstroke when I'm crushing souls. During normal riding, I barely apply any force on the upstroke at all.
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Old 04-07-07, 01:23 AM   #18
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As someone who has had the conversation in my head about a 1000 times here is what my internal debate came up with:

PT vs SRM/ergomo- accuracy is about the same as are features. At the time I made my purchase the ergomo did not have an interval function, not sure if this has changed.

PowerTap pros:
Price; of the three the PowerTap SL is the most affordable, laced to an Open Pro/CPX 33 or DT Swiss RR 1.1 it's less than a ergomo and laced to Zipp 404's slightly less than an SRM Pro. (all prices are based on new retail sales price not ebay pricing).


SRM Amateur $2100.00
SRM Pro $2700.00 to $3400.00

Ergomo $1599.00 (full system minus cranks)

PowerTap SL with 32h Open Pro $1350.00
PowerTap SL with Zipp 404 clincher front/rear wheel $2500.00

Portability- Although I've spoken with guys who use their SRM's on multiple bikes it's much more of a hassle than just swapping out wheels. I use my PT between my RR and TT bikes and it's nothing more than swapping out the rear wheel. The ergomo is really out of the question in this regard and would require buying two units, about the same as an SRM (assuming you had the proper cranks already). Saris had kick arse customer service.

PowerTap cons:
Weight, it's heavy in comparison to the other units and this is very true when it comes to race set ups. If you want a separate set of race wheels then you need to either opt for the 404 setup or have another PT laced to your race wheels. The latter setup is now more costly than two ergomos or an SRM. Riding in the wet can be a real problem with the PT although I've not experienced this issue.
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Old 04-07-07, 06:11 PM   #19
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From the microsport website:
Quote:
Accurate:

* 5% Seated compares with torque based devices!
That's a 10% spread and its only accurate when seated. Not going to fly IMO.
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Old 04-07-07, 06:32 PM   #20
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Doesn't the new cordless PowerTap unit solve the multi-bike issue??
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Old 04-07-07, 06:40 PM   #21
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the new wireless powertap is also a piece of crap.
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Old 04-07-07, 06:42 PM   #22
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the new wireless powertap is also a piece of crap.
Why is that BD?
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Old 04-07-07, 06:43 PM   #23
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Why is that BD?
Fickle connection that has lead the majority of users to experience significant periods of dropped data.
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Old 04-07-07, 06:49 PM   #24
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Fickle connection that has lead the majority of users to experience significant periods of dropped data.
It can't be too hard to wire a second bike for the wired version of the PowerTap, is it?
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Old 04-07-07, 06:53 PM   #25
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It can't be too hard to wire a second bike for the wired version of the PowerTap, is it?
just as hard as wiring the first one

But no, it's not that hard. Seriously not that hard.
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