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Old 04-12-07, 12:17 PM   #1
Lithuania
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pyramid intervals

I have a couple questions about these.

When doing the sprint version of 15-30-45-60-45-30-15 I assume the effort is 100% all out. Is the recovery period the same between each (30 sec?) or does it match the effort length? When doing sprint intervals like this are you supposed to do the total pyramid multiple times? It would seem like warming up just to do these would end up with a pretty short over all workout.


When doing the 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 with power how do you determine what % to go for each effort and how do you determine the rest periods? Are you supposed to do this pyramid multiple times?
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Old 04-12-07, 12:29 PM   #2
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rest interval duration = interval duration. All max. efforts. "Sprint" intervals = out of saddle, others are seated. If can do multiple sets, you either didnt do it right or you're a better man than I.
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Old 04-12-07, 12:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by MDcatV
rest interval duration = interval duration. All max. efforts. "Sprint" intervals = out of saddle, others are seated. If can do multiple sets, you either didnt do it right or you're a better man than I.
I didnt know if you were supposed to rest like 20 minutes and try them again. Ive never attempted them. I assumed it might be one of those things were you blow yourself up. Im still getting my mind set to the quaility not quanity thing.
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Old 04-12-07, 12:55 PM   #4
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In thinking about this some more, I mixed up the reply. The 123454321 intervals are = rest, seated, maximal, 1 set (which takes 50' when you add it up).

I've never done the other pyramid you spoke of, but I have done similar: 15"on/15"off; 30"on/30"off; 45"on/45"off' 60"on/60"off; 75"on/75"off (that's 1 rep). I usually do a set of 3 or 4 reps, 5' between reps. These are also max efforts, seated, might "jump" out of the saddle to start each 15" effort, but remainder is seated.
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Old 04-12-07, 01:08 PM   #5
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ohhh hmmm. I thought your reply was strictly to the first pyramid.

so the whole 1-5 is just max effort? I did one of those last week and I pretty much blew myself up just over half way through.
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Old 04-12-07, 01:09 PM   #6
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blowin up is okay, provided you keep going as hard as you can after you blow up. The more it hurts, the better.
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Old 04-12-07, 01:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by riskus
ohhh hmmm. I thought your reply was strictly to the first pyramid.

so the whole 1-5 is just max effort? I did one of those last week and I pretty much blew myself up just over half way through.
Not sure what kind of super-human you are, but I can only do max-effort for 30-40 seconds (sprint). The 1-minute interval is at about 98% max-effort. And the 5-minute is roughly 80-90% of max-effort as far as muscle-exertion is concerned. But if you mean max-effort in terms of HR, then yes, you want to pace yourself at a steady pace such that your HR is maxed out at the end of each interval. Here's my MPH roughly at various interval times:

1-min = 32mph
2-min = 29mph
3-min = 28mph
4-min = 27mph
5-min = 26mph

These efforts are all above LT, thus HR will steadily increase to max-HR by the end of the interval. The difference is simply the ramp-up rate of the HR, like BPM-increase every 15-seconds.
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Old 04-12-07, 01:19 PM   #8
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the idea is that you don't go MAX effort all the time but MAX for the time period. In other words, for the 3 minute effort you don't go CP1 or you blow up. Instead you try for a new personal best CP3. So your power output for the 45 second interval will not be the same as the power for the 15 second interval, but it will be the most you could possibly do.
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Old 04-12-07, 01:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riskus
ohhh hmmm. I thought your reply was strictly to the first pyramid.

so the whole 1-5 is just max effort? I did one of those last week and I pretty much blew myself up just over half way through.
by my coach's definitions, max effort = max sustainable effort for the duration of the interval. These are very hard workouts.
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Old 04-12-07, 02:30 PM   #10
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There is not a set rule on this. Different methods develop different areas of fitness, and you should probably vary it.

When I do sprint pyramids, they are 100% all-out and explosive, with equal recovery and effort periods. Mine are 5-10-15-20-25-30-25-20-15-10-5. I did one yesterday with my training partner. This guy can beat me 50% of the time in a 200m drag race with full recovery, but in the pyramid, I ended up about 100m ahead of him at the end of the 6 minutes (and I coasted for recovery). Different fitness attributes are stressed.

On the other hand, when I do interval pyramids, I usually to 4x recovery per effort (e.g. 8 recovery for 2 effort). I always have done 1-1-2-5-2-1-1 pyramids. I don't actually do a full 20 minute recovery in there unless the quality on the 5 was really high. 20 minutes is base miles, not recovery Sometimes I do equal recovery intervals too though.

For my longer intervals (which are ~4:00 hill repeats), I only take a 1:00 recovery. The intensity is so much lower that I just don't need as much recovery. I want to keep my muscles stressed, but my HR gets back down in that time (which is how long the descent and turnaround is).
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Old 04-12-07, 02:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Not sure what kind of super-human you are, but I can only do max-effort for 30-40 seconds (sprint). The 1-minute interval is at about 98% max-effort. And the 5-minute is roughly 80-90% of max-effort as far as muscle-exertion is concerned. But if you mean max-effort in terms of HR, then yes, you want to pace yourself at a steady pace such that your HR is maxed out at the end of each interval. Here's my MPH roughly at various interval times:

1-min = 32mph
2-min = 29mph
3-min = 28mph
4-min = 27mph
5-min = 26mph

These efforts are all above LT, thus HR will steadily increase to max-HR by the end of the interval. The difference is simply the ramp-up rate of the HR, like BPM-increase every 15-seconds.
by max effort i meant the max effort i could go for the specific time frame? is that really hard to understand?
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Old 04-12-07, 02:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
the idea is that you don't go MAX effort all the time but MAX for the time period. In other words, for the 3 minute effort you don't go CP1 or you blow up. Instead you try for a new personal best CP3. So your power output for the 45 second interval will not be the same as the power for the 15 second interval, but it will be the most you could possibly do.
Ok this makes sense. I dont know why I could not grasp that before. So basically for the 1 minute interval I would strive to top my 1 minute power and so on?
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Old 04-12-07, 02:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by MDcatV
by my coach's definitions, max effort = max sustainable effort for the duration of the interval. These are very hard workouts.
ok got it.
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Old 04-12-07, 02:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
There is not a set rule on this. Different methods develop different areas of fitness, and you should probably vary it.

When I do sprint pyramids, they are 100% all-out and explosive, with equal recovery and effort periods. Mine are 5-10-15-20-25-30-25-20-15-10-5. I did one yesterday with my training partner. This guy can beat me 50% of the time in a 200m drag race with full recovery, but in the pyramid, I ended up about 100m ahead of him at the end of the 6 minutes (and I coasted for recovery). Different fitness attributes are stressed.
Are you toast after this duration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
On the other hand, when I do interval pyramids, I usually to 4x recovery per effort (e.g. 8 recovery for 2 effort). I always have done 1-1-2-5-2-1-1 pyramids. I don't actually do a full 20 minute recovery in there unless the quality on the 5 was really high. 20 minutes is base miles, not recovery Sometimes I do equal recovery intervals too though.
Why do you do back to back 1 minute periods? Any specific logic behind it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
For my longer intervals (which are ~4:00 hill repeats), I only take a 1:00 recovery. The intensity is so much lower that I just don't need as much recovery. I want to keep my muscles stressed, but my HR gets back down in that time (which is how long the descent and turnaround is).
So these arent intense intervals at all more strenght building exericises correct?
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Old 04-12-07, 02:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by riskus
Are you toast after this duration?



Why do you do back to back 1 minute periods? Any specific logic behind it?



So these arent intense intervals at all more strenght building exericises correct?
I would assume that for the third part, with the 4 minute intervals, they are quite hard, but because of the duration of the interval, his heart rate doesn't get quite as high (in order to be sustainable) as it would during a 1min interval, but is up there for much longer. So, it drops down to sustainable levels faster, and he's ready to go again quicker.
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Old 04-12-07, 06:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riskus
Are you toast after this duration?
Yes. Burned to a crisp. 20 minutes later I can start riding hard again, but only one sprint pyramid -- I rarely do more than one a month just for sanity's sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riskus
Why do you do back to back 1 minute periods? Any specific logic behind it?
To train your performance when you don't get recovery. It's a horrible workout though. Very very tough. The most I've done with any quality is 30 minutes, and I was in a bad mood when I started -- which helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riskus
So these arent intense intervals at all more strenght building exericises correct?
It's mostly sub-anaerobic. I do negative splits/positive effort, so my 6th repeat is always faster than the first (each is faster than the previous). The last one is all-out, finishing with a sprint. Each repeat is also positive effort, so I roll across the top faster than the bottom. This means the first one is rather easy feeling, but I do them only 2s or so negative -- it's a tight group. Anyway, it works out to be decent 4:00 intervals, and is a great way to learn my body and pacing. I really know when I'm pedaling too hard because of the negative split work. I never bury myself without knowing it these days.
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Old 04-13-07, 08:04 AM   #17
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all this talk and i think im just going to do 8x2s and 8x1s tonight instead.
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