Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    239
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    bettering my cornering, in crits,,,,,,,,

    i am a cat5 racer, i have maybe 10 crits under my belt. 2 uscf events and the rest all training crits at the same place. I
    had a crit this weekend fast flat glassy roads and one downhill rough bumpy lumpy corner. the field went through that corner like it was a bmx race after the 2nd lap i got squeezed to the back and fell of the pack a half lap for the remainder.
    i guess i need to go find the worst beat up bump downhill corner i can find and just practice being fast and good going through that type. any pointers.

  2. #2
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    My Bikes
    2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
    Posts
    6,312
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Weight on the outside foot seems to be a common suggestion.
    Bring the pain.

  3. #3
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    My Bikes
    Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
    Posts
    4,166
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Counter steering is the most important thing you can do to help you corner faster. Also, lean the bike more than the body if it's dry, and the body more than the bike if it's wet.

  4. #4
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bumpy corners are best approached by slightly standing on the pedals so there's less weight on the seat. Rather than a stiff outer leg with all of your weight on it like normal cornering, bend the knee a little. Also bend your elbows and relax your arms also, but keep a firm grip with the hands. When you run over the bump, your legs & arms will act as suspension and let the bike bounce around underneath you, but your upper-body will be calm and steady to maintain control.

    If it's really bad bump, you can actually hop a little right before the bump so there's less weight on the bike as it hits the bump. That'll disturb the bike+rider system even less and you can ride right over bump like it wasn't even there.

  5. #5
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin (near TX)
    My Bikes
    rkwaki's porn collection
    Posts
    26,081
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1 to all the above: esp countersteering and unweighting the saddle

    Stay SMOOOOTH in the corner. Don't do anything sudden. That doesn't mean you don't corner hard, you just get there smoothly.

  6. #6
    DocRay
    Guest
    Brake before the corner, not during, and always stand up after the corner to get your momentum back. If you can, use all the road from the very edge to the apex and back out again.
    Keep your head low, keep you center of gravity as low as possible.
    Avoid over-inflated tires, this will cause bouncing on small bumps.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,432
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All the weight on the outside pedal. If possible, pick a line so that as you go over the worst of the bumps you are starting to pick the bike up, rather than leaning the bike over. Really loose on the bars. Look into the corner well before you actually use the bars to steer into the corner.

    If you feel it start to slip, don't panic! Don't wrestle the bars, in fact, don't put any input into the bars. Don't use the brakes and just try to shift your weight to the highside without any input on the bars.

    If you have to bail and go straight in the corner, get the bike up as quickly as possible and use the front brake hard, NOT the rear. Hope you don't have anybody next to you if you do this, because they will not be happy.
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    239
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the cat 5 guys i notce are very hungry and agressive it seems like there is more agressive moves and emphasis on speed than team work and tactics, i have noticed that they seem to go all out for the first 10 mins which most cats do but they seem to be all or nothing, so as a result i have learne di need to get my cornering skill to be very mx style and agressive if i wanna hang on.

  9. #9
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
    Posts
    17,416
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Not around here... The 5's (and even the 4's) are well known for hitting the brakes in corners, often making it more dangerous than just taking the turn properly.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  10. #10
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Vagabond
    My Bikes
    Affirmative
    Posts
    9,006
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you dont already have your position optimized, you may want to do that. Properly fitting myself to my bike has done wonders to my cornering.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    239
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i had a cat 3 buddy who is very good tell me once that some of the guys i race against need to move up now. i figure if nothing else by the time we cat up we should be pretty good . i plan on working on my intervals to better match the crits.
    i figure i need to work on an allout 12 mins like theres no tomorow that seems to be how long this agressive pace lasted then they settle down. i look forward to moving up someday becuase the races are longer yet they really make more sense. , strategy etc.

  12. #12
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    My Bikes
    Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
    Posts
    4,166
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If by 12, you mean 15-60 or 3-8 then yes.

    12 minutes is in kind of a "no mans" land between your VO2 and aerobic systems. Nothing wrong with doing 12 minute intervals per se...just that you'd probably be better served by going harder for less time, or easier for more time.

  13. #13
    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,709
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You actually CAN brake while cornering but if you are truly going fast it requires a delicate touch. There's very few crit courses that require much if any braking, a fact that becomes evident as you move up into the 1/2/3.

    You're best cornering in the drops, it lowers your cg, loads the front wheel properly, and gives you a lot more control if things get funny. Drop the inside knee a bit. Stay loose. Frozen people don't corner well.

    The single biggest mistake that causes problems is people looking where they DON'T want to go. If you stare at the pothole you're 85% certain of hitting it. Look where you WANT to go. Not the curb, crash, or gutter.

    And go practice. If you're cornering well you'll flow through with little or no change in lean angle, or steering. Cornering is a sequence of events...set up properly (weight/pedals/hand position), transition into the lean, corner, transition out.

    Watch some Giro DVD's of Savoldelli. Perfect form and cornering lines.
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

  14. #14
    Will race for points dl613's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    My Bikes
    Tarmac, looking for another tri bike
    Posts
    165
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ever ridden a motorcycle? Scrub speed before but trust your bike and your line and be ready for someone else not to be as smooth as you. Weight constant, be centered and of course don't grab your brakes in the corner since this will not only disrupt everyone but it will inherently make you upright and destroy your line and possibly some other gnarly impact. If you do squeeze the brakes don't panic. As your comfort level increases so will your speed.

    If that all fails then just try to be predictable. that's the biggest thing they taught us racing motorcycles and it has carried over well.

    Good luck.

    Edit:+1 to Vino Don't look down, at the pothole or at the hot girl on the corner. read your line as it changes all the way through.
    Best finish this season-2nd with a prime $$$

    worst: DNF-flatted on crit

  15. #15
    Bike!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    My Bikes
    2002 Cannondale R2000 Si Saeco, 2000 Specialized Rockhopper RS
    Posts
    185
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All the above posts give excellent advice. In addition to learning the techniques explained above, it gave me comfort when I realized that you can put ALOT of pressure on those little tires. You can bounce them around and lean over on them much more than you might think. You will probably lose your nerve in a corner long before you lose traction on a dry road...so just be mentally tough and trusting of your equipment and you will probably avoid alot of trouble. You get yourself in a heap of trouble when you lose your nerve and grab a break or start to question your line in a turn. Just commit and go with it.

    One other thing I am not sure I heard others mention: Look through the turn...as far toward where you are going as possible. Staring at the road directly in front of your tire will do no good.
    __________________________________
    "The best rides are the ones where you bite off much more than you can chew...and live through it." -Doug Bradbury-

    Cannondale R2000Si Team Saeco Edition
    Specialized Rockhopper RS
    Honda CBR 600 F4i

  16. #16
    Little Pony obra3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
    Posts
    667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    countersteer as snuff says. also try to keep your weight more toward the vertical. if you watch critters who also are also good at MTB- you'll see this in action. there's more downward force on the tires so they are less prone to slippage. if you lean into more toward the horizontal, you have less downward force- more likely to slip.
    King Pony OBRA
    Blog
    Cat XXX Whatever Meter- I'll upgrade myself.

  17. #17
    Outgunned and outclassed
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    The Springs, CO
    Posts
    998
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    keep your weight more toward the vertical
    what does that mean?
    Patience - Consistency - Motivation

    I literally put our 9.11 watts/kg for 12 hours.

  18. #18
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Galt Gulch
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
    Posts
    9,973
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
    If you dont already have your position optimized, you may want to do that. Properly fitting myself to my bike has done wonders to my cornering.

    Can I have an "amen"??

    Also, when looking over a course, you need to try several lines in the turns at speed. In lower cats, one of the biggest reasons why guys get on the binders in turns is they feel they will go over. And the reason for that is they are being forced to take a line where they are uncomfortable due to the presence of other racers (versus riding on your own in a warmup)...so try the inside, the middle, and the far outside at speed so you are familiar with the "feel" before you get into it at speed.
    If you know what it feels like, you won't panic in a race.

    ...and cause a wreck.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  19. #19
    Little Pony obra3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
    Posts
    667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hrm... tough to explain without photos. Photo When your body is more upright than toward the horizontal, there's more weight over the contact points of the tires. When you're more toward the horizontal, i.e. leaning a lot, there's greater force pushing out instead of down- more likelihood of sliding out over rough or wet pavement. If you look at this kid, if you draw a line straight down the line of the bike, you notice he's a little bit more vertical than that line of the bike. The only complaint about his form is that his inside knee is bowed out, I'd prefer that knee be pressed in against the top tube.
    King Pony OBRA
    Blog
    Cat XXX Whatever Meter- I'll upgrade myself.

  20. #20
    Outgunned and outclassed
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    The Springs, CO
    Posts
    998
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    keeping your weight over the contact patches? that is pretty much essential.
    Patience - Consistency - Motivation

    I literally put our 9.11 watts/kg for 12 hours.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Huntersville, NC
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by obra3
    snip...
    The only complaint about his form is that his inside knee is bowed out, I'd prefer that knee be pressed in against the top tube.
    Can you expand on this a little? Vinokurtov has also mentioned to keep the inside knee in. I though if you opened you knee you naturally turned in that direction.

  22. #22
    Little Pony obra3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
    Posts
    667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "To really fly through turns on the road, countersteer by pushing down sharply on the handlebar on the opposite side of the direction you want to turn about two wheel lengths before the turn. For example, push down on the right side of the bar if you want to turn left. This move makes your bike snap back into the turn, giving you a quick entry into the turn and a sharper lean than you'd get by just sticking your knee out the old-school way. Also, by keeping your inside knee in and pushing it against the top tube, you control your line. The more pressure, the sharper the turn and lean." - Cadel Evans
    King Pony OBRA
    Blog
    Cat XXX Whatever Meter- I'll upgrade myself.

  23. #23
    Little Pony obra3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
    Posts
    667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's another great primer on cornering.

    http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/ar....asp?recid=320
    King Pony OBRA
    Blog
    Cat XXX Whatever Meter- I'll upgrade myself.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Huntersville, NC
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thank you!

  25. #25
    Little Pony obra3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
    Posts
    667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    np. good luck, have fun and keep the rubber side down.
    King Pony OBRA
    Blog
    Cat XXX Whatever Meter- I'll upgrade myself.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •