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Old 05-01-07, 04:54 PM   #1
patentcad
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In all sports, rule violations that go unobserved by officials are not 'cheating'

After reading that amusing thread where Cypress violated the yellow line rule for 2 seconds to get position at the end of a P 1-2-3 road race, a little perspective is in order. Does anyone know ANY sport where minor infractions of rules don't occur all the time? in football there's holding in the interior line on every other play. In basketball the only fouls are the one the officials SEE and choose to call. Cypress' actions are what any competitive athlete is going to do come crunch time. He gets DQ'd? Whatever. No yellow line dodge, no placing in his race.

Spare me the sermonizing about how it's 'dangerous'. Maybe to Cypress. But I'm sure he looked up the road and made sure HE wasn't about to ride straight into an oncoming car endangering himself and others. Get a grip. He went over the yellow line, got his position, didn't endanger anyone and that's about all there is to it.

How many guys were in that race? 30? 24 of them finished behind Cypress. They all obeyed the yellow line rule. I'm sure they feel like solid citizens. Good for them. Cypress wanted to finish well. That's what bike RACERS do. Lance and E. Merckx would approve.

Cypress didn't get caught. He crossed the yellow line in the last 200 meters. No flag, no foul. He didn't hold up a 7/11. (That's what I'D have to do to get a place in a P-123 race).
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Old 05-01-07, 04:56 PM   #2
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+1
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Old 05-01-07, 04:57 PM   #3
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I guess I'm a solid citizen.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:01 PM   #4
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Thank you.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:03 PM   #5
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I guess I'm a solid citizen.
We'll have to work on that KP. In the meantime you may have to change your BF name to Non-Killer Instinct Penguin : ). You'll need more than big lungs and big heart in bike racing. Sometimes you need brass balls. I predict that if you stay in racing long enough you'll get sick of watching the Cypress types of the world beat you to the line and suddenly things like yellow line violations won't seem like war crimes to you. They are not. Don't worry, the officials will DQ you if they think you're out of line. That's THEIR job. You just want to beat the other mopes to the finish.

You're too nice for bike racing. Don't worry, I think the sport will beat that out of you. You have as much talent as Cypress. AND you're skinnier.

But alas, Pcad remains the fat, old, slow bike weenie with the way schwag wheels.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:04 PM   #6
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You have as much talent as Cypress. AND you're skinnier.

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Old 05-01-07, 05:04 PM   #7
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Thank you.
I'm still not buying that cheeseass seatpost.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:05 PM   #8
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I'm still not buying that cheeseass seatpost.

You'll cave in eventually.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:07 PM   #9
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I guess I'm a solid citizen.
I'm a solid citizen too....but I like to ocassionally drive like 140+ mph on the highway. Does that make me an evil person? . I mean the "rules" clearly state I'm not supposed to go over the God-awful slow, "artificial" B.S. limit of 55-65 mph (that literally puts me to sleep, BTW....far and away more dangerous than "speeding").

Ah well....rules were made to be broken.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:09 PM   #10
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I am too unfamiliar with this situation to know if an advantage was gained by the person breaking the rule while those who chose not to break the rule were put at a positional disadvantage. If that is the case, though, I would have to say that a person with integrity would do the right thing even when no one is looking and admit that it is cheating when he was not caught.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:11 PM   #11
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I went over the sprinter's line during a race this weekend, which is grounds for disqualification. I got a warning which I think is more than fair as it was entirely unintentional.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:11 PM   #12
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For the record: The guy that I went around came in 3rd to DFL. Rather glad I went around him.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:13 PM   #13
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I am too unfamiliar with this situation to know if an advantage was gained by the person breaking the rule while those who chose not to break the rule were put at a positional disadvantage. If that is the case, though, I would have to say that a person with integrity would do the right thing even when no one is looking and admit that it is cheating when he was not caught.
It ain't golf dude.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:13 PM   #14
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Okay using Cypress' situation. If he had jumped the yellow line (which he freely admits) to gain position, and beat me because of it I would have protested his result. Personally I don't jump the yellow line, if I f'd up an didn't get the position I needed then it's my fault. If the guy that Cypress jumped was so slow he should have picked up on that during the race and not ended up on his wheel. I understand the frustration but as it was mentioned before position is part of the race craft. Sometimes you are in the right position and sometimes you are not. If a guy chops my front wheel on purpose you bet that I'll make sure he gets the same treatment from me the next race.

It doesn't surprise me that some people feel comfortable violating the rules. I do wonder however if they had been on the receiving end of the guy who gained position over them if they would feel so forgiving.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:14 PM   #15
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I'm more of the type of the person where I'd actually want to win by being the best, not by knowingly hindering someone who's clearly better than me for my own personal gain. Apparently the guy in front of Cypress was leaning more towards the latter.

It's not like we're racing to earn a friggin' living here.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:15 PM   #16
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I'm a solid citizen too....but I like to ocassionally drive like 140+ mph on the highway. Does that make me an evil person? . I mean the "rules" clearly state I'm not supposed to go over the God-awful slow, "artificial" B.S. limit of 55-65 mph (that literally puts me to sleep, BTW....far and away more dangerous than "speeding").

Ah well....rules were made to be broken.
Feck the law. I go 85 on the thruway.

IMO, sport is different. A sport is defined by its rules. Supposed to see how good you are at said sport within the scope of the rules laid down. You wouldn't use a PED just because you can get away with it, ehh (I'm aware that's an extreme example bordering on hyperbole)?

That said, if the whole damn field is going over the double yellow, I'd say feck it and use the whole road.
edit: This isn't a tacit admission that i'd use PED's.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:15 PM   #17
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I went over the sprinter's line during a race this weekend, which is grounds for disqualification. I got a warning which I think is more than fair as it was entirely unintentional.
I agree. Intentional violations should be grounds for a DQ.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:18 PM   #18
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For the record: The guy that I went around came in 3rd to DFL. Rather glad I went around him.
Next time read the race better and don't end up on his wheel. Let me ask you this lets say that he was part of a lead out train and you were on his wheel. He lets his guy slide through then shuts the door on you. Is that fair? Does this give you the right to break the rules because he didn't lead you out? I'm sorry but I really don't agree with this attitude that you get break the rules because you didn't read the race properly. You know I like you Cypress but in this case you are in the wrong.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:20 PM   #19
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I would cross the yellow line to get to my illicit doping doctor's car for a shot of EPO if I thought it would help me win a bicycle race. I would avoid detection by bribing race officials before hand.

So perhaps I am the wrong person to engage in this debate. But I would be a perfect fit in the UCI.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:20 PM   #20
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Next time read the race better and don't end up on his wheel. Let me ask you this lets say that he was part of a lead out train and you were on his wheel. He lets his guy slide through then shuts the door on you. Is that fair? Does this give you the right to break the rules because he didn't lead you out? I'm sorry but I really don't agree with this attitude that you get break the rules because you didn't read the race properly. You know I like you Cypress but in this case you are in the wrong.

I have never claimed to be in the right though.

If I was caught yellowing and relegated, I would accept my punishment as more than fair.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:22 PM   #21
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Cypress didn't put anyone in harm's way by crossing the yellow line. The guy he passed wasn't even gunning for the win. And Cypress didn't even make top 5. Another way to interpret "i cut his front wheel as close as possible" is "I was aware that I had violated the yellow line rule and did my best to re-enter the correct lane at the earliest opportunity, keeping the safety of my fellow cyclists at the front of my mind the entire time".

Above all, it's freaking Montana - with 20 something people in the field, that only leaves about 30 other people in the entire state. Assuming the whole of the population is concentrated in and around the finishing area, and taking into consideration the fact that 85% of American households have cars, factoring in the average household of two parents and 2.5 children, that leaves like two cars that could have been oncoming.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:23 PM   #22
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Avoiding oncomming traffic isn't the point.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:27 PM   #23
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Avoiding oncomming traffic isn't the point.
Yes it is. Why don't you get it??????????
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Old 05-01-07, 05:28 PM   #24
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Its why the USCF made the rule, but its not the reason why I don't go over the yellow line.
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Old 05-01-07, 05:36 PM   #25
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Its why the USCF made the rule, but its not the reason why I don't go over the yellow line.
OK. I'll bite. So why DON'T you go over the yellow line?
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