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Old 05-09-07, 10:15 AM   #1
ElJamoquio
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TT Aerodynamics... Helmet and Gloves

So, we've all seen the MIT study where a aero helmet was 4X as effective as aero wheels, and riding with no gloves on is more effective than wheels.

So who here rides with an aero helmet? Recommendations?

Who here rides without gloves? I have slip-on gloves, that don't have that big lip at the back of them; they're quite form-fitting, even at the end of the half-finger portion. I have difficulty believing that *these* gloves have that large of a aero penalty. Comments?
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Old 05-09-07, 10:32 AM   #2
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I've been skipping gloves just for TTs. More of a mental thing for me, as I like the feel of the wind on the tops of my hands. I'm not planning on investing much money in TTs, so no helmet for me. If I ever manage to show some promise in TTs, I might get more gear -- but as it stands, I'm a sprinter.
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Old 05-09-07, 10:46 AM   #3
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I have a Louis Garneau helmet. Lacking in talent, I'm always looking to buy speed. Honestly, I didn't see any magic jump in speed, but I haven't done a direct comparison. I'm willing to believe it helps some, but I'm not so sure its as much as claimed. (It may also depend on your ability to hold it in the right position.)

If you get one, I'd skip the visor. It's hot, and tends to fog, and I've seen some suggestion that the Visor doesn't help the aerodynamics.
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Old 05-09-07, 10:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
So, we've all seen the MIT study where a aero helmet was 4X as effective as aero wheels, and riding with no gloves on is more effective than wheels.

So who here rides with an aero helmet? Recommendations?
And many have seen the discussions of why the results are flawed and should not be trusted. As to recommending aero helmets, unlike wheels which perform the same for everyone, optimum helmet design is so closely coupled to an individual's riding position and morphology that it's impossible to make a general recommendation. The best helmet for one rider could be the worst for another.
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Old 05-09-07, 10:59 AM   #5
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Yeah, but I'm pretty sure my Atmos is the worst-"worst for another."

FYI, I've seen the discussions about the 'flaws', sometimes discussed by the Zipp rep's on the forums...
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Old 05-09-07, 11:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure my Atmos is the worst-"worst for another."

FYI, I've seen the discussions about the 'flaws', sometimes discussed by the Zipp rep's on the forums...
Just get a TT helmet that fits right, they are all going to perform close to the same. I vote wait for the giro advantage 2 to come out in the states.
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Old 05-09-07, 11:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure my Atmos is the worst-"worst for another."

FYI, I've seen the discussions about the 'flaws', sometimes discussed by the Zipp rep's on the forums...
Then you must have seen the one from the MIT researcher verifying everything Josh wrote. Your implication is clear, that comments from a Zipp employee can't be trusted, so it's interesting to see that the MIT rep said essentially the same things first. I find it amusing how many people question information coming from Zipp, only to have it confirmed later in independent tests. My experience has been that Josh at Zipp is totally reliable in what he posts.
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Old 05-09-07, 12:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by recneps
Just get a TT helmet that fits right, they are all going to perform close to the same. I vote wait for the giro advantage 2 to come out in the states.
Not true at all, the Giro advantage even with the frontal vents taped off cost more time than the LG rocket. There is also an aero penelty for gloves but if they are smooth backed it is very small. There are plenty of free TT bike speed to be gained with trimming and positioning though.

Edit* Also visors are slower not faster.
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Old 05-09-07, 12:04 PM   #9
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Yeah, the Giro is not good. Get the Rocket if you're looking for the best price/performance helmet.

That said, yeah, toy with your position first, and ditch the gloves.
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Old 05-09-07, 12:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle
Then you must have seen the one from the MIT researcher verifying everything Josh wrote. Your implication is clear, that comments from a Zipp employee can't be trusted, so it's interesting to see that the MIT rep said essentially the same things first. I find it amusing how many people question information coming from Zipp, only to have it confirmed later in independent tests. My experience has been that Josh at Zipp is totally reliable in what he posts.


My implication must not be clear, because I didn't know what I was implying. I'd really prefer to keep writing my own posts, but if you'd like to do that, feel free.

For the record, I'm glad there's a Zipp rep on the forums. I'm glad there's a <insert name of ANY bike manufacturer rep> on this forum; it makes it a great place to be.

That said, you'd have to assume that:

1. The wind angle of attack is 20-30 degrees (not true for most of my rides).
2. The helmet rear-wards drag doubles at those angles of attack (if I make a logical assumption here, you'll attack me as you've done in the past)

Although I haven't seen "the one from the MIT researcher"... I'm not sure why it matters, as I've never doubted what Josh says - in fact, I've always swallowed the data as 100% true at face value. But that doesn't change what a helmet does vs. what a wheel does. Nor do I care (much), as I can't afford a set of Zipp's anyway.

My offer to delete all remotely-critical of Zipp posts for a pair of free 404's still stands.
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Old 05-09-07, 12:51 PM   #11
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I don't wear gloves and I wear an LG Rocket helmet.
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Old 05-09-07, 12:57 PM   #12
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Everyone that has ever passed me in a TT has had an aero helmet, a rear disk, and was wearing gloves. I dont think most people want to be birthing gravel out of their palms for 3 weeks for a few hypothetical thousandths of a second. I could afford the helmet still trying to get a disk.
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Old 05-09-07, 01:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrennie
Not true at all, the Giro advantage even with the frontal vents taped off cost more time than the LG rocket. There is also an aero penelty for gloves but if they are smooth backed it is very small. There are plenty of free TT bike speed to be gained with trimming and positioning though.

Edit* Also visors are slower not faster.
I'm sorry where did you get this information?
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Old 05-09-07, 04:54 PM   #14
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http://www.trisports.com/giroadvantage2.html

Looks like the Giro Advantage 2 is available. Why is this not a good aereo helmet?
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Old 05-09-07, 05:03 PM   #15
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Vents and such, and the shape. It tests considerably slower than the Rocket.
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Old 05-09-07, 08:54 PM   #16
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Vents and such, and the shape. It tests considerably slower than the Rocket.
Who tested it? Iv'e never seen any aero helmet test, but I'm sure you guys putting down the giro could provide some.
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Old 05-09-07, 08:55 PM   #17
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also whats considerably?
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Old 05-09-07, 08:56 PM   #18
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http://www.trisports.com/giroadvantage2.html

Looks like the Giro Advantage 2 is available. Why is this not a good aereo helmet?
Check again its pre-order. The owner of I shop I work at got one while he was in holland but sold it for well under retail for some reason.
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Old 05-09-07, 09:00 PM   #19
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...I dont think most people want to be birthing gravel out of their palms for 3 weeks for a few hypothetical thousandths of a second...
Damn right. Never again.
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Old 05-09-07, 09:22 PM   #20
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I'm sorry where did you get this information?

I could tell you but that might result in you being faster and I wouldn't want that. If you were to ask with out the negitive attitude I would have gladly sharded the results with you.
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Old 05-09-07, 09:44 PM   #21
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I could tell you but that might result in you being faster and I wouldn't want that. If you were to ask with out the negitive attitude I would have gladly sharded the results with you.
Nah, I'm alright I dont really care that much.
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Old 05-10-07, 04:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I could tell you but that might result in you being faster and I wouldn't want that. If you were to ask with out the negitive attitude I would have gladly sharded the results with you.
I'm actually interested as well. Any chance?
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Old 05-10-07, 06:02 AM   #23
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Go look on the biketechreview.com forums -- they have a ton of tests.... Aero helmets are a big thing there, tires, and wheels. Other important things to note are that Ksyrium SL's are harder to keep spinning than a Mavic Aksium, not to mention almost every other wheel out there.
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Old 05-10-07, 07:41 AM   #24
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never gloves in TTs. And since I actually know how to control a tt bike, I am not worried in the slightest about bits 'o gravel.
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Old 05-10-07, 08:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
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also whats considerably?
5 seconds in a 40k(lowest number, some individuals tested at 54 seconds slower). Worth it? For me, yes. For you, ???
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