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  1. #1
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    TT Aerodynamics... Helmet and Gloves

    So, we've all seen the MIT study where a aero helmet was 4X as effective as aero wheels, and riding with no gloves on is more effective than wheels.

    So who here rides with an aero helmet? Recommendations?

    Who here rides without gloves? I have slip-on gloves, that don't have that big lip at the back of them; they're quite form-fitting, even at the end of the half-finger portion. I have difficulty believing that *these* gloves have that large of a aero penalty. Comments?
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  2. #2
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    I've been skipping gloves just for TTs. More of a mental thing for me, as I like the feel of the wind on the tops of my hands. I'm not planning on investing much money in TTs, so no helmet for me. If I ever manage to show some promise in TTs, I might get more gear -- but as it stands, I'm a sprinter.

  3. #3
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    I have a Louis Garneau helmet. Lacking in talent, I'm always looking to buy speed. Honestly, I didn't see any magic jump in speed, but I haven't done a direct comparison. I'm willing to believe it helps some, but I'm not so sure its as much as claimed. (It may also depend on your ability to hold it in the right position.)

    If you get one, I'd skip the visor. It's hot, and tends to fog, and I've seen some suggestion that the Visor doesn't help the aerodynamics.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
    So, we've all seen the MIT study where a aero helmet was 4X as effective as aero wheels, and riding with no gloves on is more effective than wheels.

    So who here rides with an aero helmet? Recommendations?
    And many have seen the discussions of why the results are flawed and should not be trusted. As to recommending aero helmets, unlike wheels which perform the same for everyone, optimum helmet design is so closely coupled to an individual's riding position and morphology that it's impossible to make a general recommendation. The best helmet for one rider could be the worst for another.

  5. #5
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Yeah, but I'm pretty sure my Atmos is the worst-"worst for another."

    FYI, I've seen the discussions about the 'flaws', sometimes discussed by the Zipp rep's on the forums...
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
    Yeah, but I'm pretty sure my Atmos is the worst-"worst for another."

    FYI, I've seen the discussions about the 'flaws', sometimes discussed by the Zipp rep's on the forums...
    Just get a TT helmet that fits right, they are all going to perform close to the same. I vote wait for the giro advantage 2 to come out in the states.
    Cat 1 o-meter 33%

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
    Yeah, but I'm pretty sure my Atmos is the worst-"worst for another."

    FYI, I've seen the discussions about the 'flaws', sometimes discussed by the Zipp rep's on the forums...
    Then you must have seen the one from the MIT researcher verifying everything Josh wrote. Your implication is clear, that comments from a Zipp employee can't be trusted, so it's interesting to see that the MIT rep said essentially the same things first. I find it amusing how many people question information coming from Zipp, only to have it confirmed later in independent tests. My experience has been that Josh at Zipp is totally reliable in what he posts.

  8. #8
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    Just get a TT helmet that fits right, they are all going to perform close to the same. I vote wait for the giro advantage 2 to come out in the states.
    Not true at all, the Giro advantage even with the frontal vents taped off cost more time than the LG rocket. There is also an aero penelty for gloves but if they are smooth backed it is very small. There are plenty of free TT bike speed to be gained with trimming and positioning though.

    Edit* Also visors are slower not faster.

  9. #9
    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Giro is not good. Get the Rocket if you're looking for the best price/performance helmet.

    That said, yeah, toy with your position first, and ditch the gloves.
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  10. #10
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle
    Then you must have seen the one from the MIT researcher verifying everything Josh wrote. Your implication is clear, that comments from a Zipp employee can't be trusted, so it's interesting to see that the MIT rep said essentially the same things first. I find it amusing how many people question information coming from Zipp, only to have it confirmed later in independent tests. My experience has been that Josh at Zipp is totally reliable in what he posts.


    My implication must not be clear, because I didn't know what I was implying. I'd really prefer to keep writing my own posts, but if you'd like to do that, feel free.

    For the record, I'm glad there's a Zipp rep on the forums. I'm glad there's a <insert name of ANY bike manufacturer rep> on this forum; it makes it a great place to be.

    That said, you'd have to assume that:

    1. The wind angle of attack is 20-30 degrees (not true for most of my rides).
    2. The helmet rear-wards drag doubles at those angles of attack (if I make a logical assumption here, you'll attack me as you've done in the past)

    Although I haven't seen "the one from the MIT researcher"... I'm not sure why it matters, as I've never doubted what Josh says - in fact, I've always swallowed the data as 100% true at face value. But that doesn't change what a helmet does vs. what a wheel does. Nor do I care (much), as I can't afford a set of Zipp's anyway.

    My offer to delete all remotely-critical of Zipp posts for a pair of free 404's still stands.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  11. #11
    Cat WTF
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    I don't wear gloves and I wear an LG Rocket helmet.

  12. #12
    Senior Member curiouskid55's Avatar
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    Everyone that has ever passed me in a TT has had an aero helmet, a rear disk, and was wearing gloves. I dont think most people want to be birthing gravel out of their palms for 3 weeks for a few hypothetical thousandths of a second. I could afford the helmet still trying to get a disk.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    Not true at all, the Giro advantage even with the frontal vents taped off cost more time than the LG rocket. There is also an aero penelty for gloves but if they are smooth backed it is very small. There are plenty of free TT bike speed to be gained with trimming and positioning though.

    Edit* Also visors are slower not faster.
    I'm sorry where did you get this information?
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    http://www.trisports.com/giroadvantage2.html

    Looks like the Giro Advantage 2 is available. Why is this not a good aereo helmet?

  15. #15
    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    Vents and such, and the shape. It tests considerably slower than the Rocket.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by UT_Dude
    Vents and such, and the shape. It tests considerably slower than the Rocket.
    Who tested it? Iv'e never seen any aero helmet test, but I'm sure you guys putting down the giro could provide some.
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  17. #17
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    also whats considerably?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KramerTC
    http://www.trisports.com/giroadvantage2.html

    Looks like the Giro Advantage 2 is available. Why is this not a good aereo helmet?
    Check again its pre-order. The owner of I shop I work at got one while he was in holland but sold it for well under retail for some reason.
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  19. #19
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouskid55
    ...I dont think most people want to be birthing gravel out of their palms for 3 weeks for a few hypothetical thousandths of a second...
    Damn right. Never again.
    Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
    It looks silly when you have quotes from other forum members in your signature. Nobody on this forum is that funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
    Why am I in your signature.

  20. #20
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    I'm sorry where did you get this information?

    I could tell you but that might result in you being faster and I wouldn't want that. If you were to ask with out the negitive attitude I would have gladly sharded the results with you.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    I could tell you but that might result in you being faster and I wouldn't want that. If you were to ask with out the negitive attitude I would have gladly sharded the results with you.
    Nah, I'm alright I dont really care that much.
    Cat 1 o-meter 33%

  22. #22
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    I could tell you but that might result in you being faster and I wouldn't want that. If you were to ask with out the negitive attitude I would have gladly sharded the results with you.
    I'm actually interested as well. Any chance?
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  23. #23
    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    Go look on the biketechreview.com forums -- they have a ton of tests.... Aero helmets are a big thing there, tires, and wheels. Other important things to note are that Ksyrium SL's are harder to keep spinning than a Mavic Aksium, not to mention almost every other wheel out there.
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  24. #24
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    never gloves in TTs. And since I actually know how to control a tt bike, I am not worried in the slightest about bits 'o gravel.

  25. #25
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    also whats considerably?
    5 seconds in a 40k(lowest number, some individuals tested at 54 seconds slower). Worth it? For me, yes. For you, ???

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